Say I wanted an LS1

I was tossing around an LS1 for a project I currently have on the back burner. For some reason or another I was thinking I could find one for under $2000. However the occasional craigslisting I do yields much different results (say from the $3800-$8000 range) and most of them offer a wiring harness to the tune of close to $1000.

So I ask ye:

Are the numbers posted above normal for people selling LS1's, or is this a case of "over-hyped prices"? What should I reasonably budget if I want to buy a complete LS1 with wiring harness and ecu?

I hope this isn't too much of a "How big is a rock?"...

Thanks.

-Bill

I'd start by differentiating between the LS1 and the LS family in general. Are you looking for that specific motor or just something from that basic family? Is an aluminum block required?

You're setting yourself up for the usual "I bought one for..." online competition. So I'll short circuit that by saying a bought a crate LS376/480 with 15 miles on it for $1500. I win.

I must admit I'm not up to date on the actual LS1 prices. A few years ago, when I was looking to build the LS1 MG, I found the same thing as you. So I bought a running 1998 6-speed Camaro Z28 for $4k, took the parts I wanted and sold the rest.

They aren't terribly easy to find but an L33 is a 5.3L truck motor with an Aluminum block. That is your best, cheap light weight option. If this is going in something that had a v8 first, just get any old LM7 or whatever because the iron block motors aren't any different than any V8. They are still lighter than many classic V8s. Those can be had out of any junk yard for sub $500 amounts, depending on yard. I imagine a pick n pull is your best bet.

LS1 are getting hard enough to find that shops are buying the aluminum 5.3s for the blocks and boring them out to LS1 bore size. Which means that the price of aluminum 5.3s has gone through the roof...

Basically, the cheap engines are the 4.8/5.3 truck engines. The 6.0s are worth more, and anything aluminum-block (all LS engines, L33, couple others) is worth silly money.

I can source an iron 6.0 tomorrow for $4000 with computer, harness, and pedal.

I was interested in the LS series of engines because of the aluminum block. But really I was interested in the LS1 specifically because of its stock power output (near 350hp) and its aftermarket potential. I would not be opposed to other LS engines, but I'm afraid I'm a bit "unstudied" on the subject.

I was once offered an LS1 in "unknown" condition for $1200 (this was eight years ago) so when I was thinking of budgets for this build I started there and added "inflation" thinking I could have an LS1 installed and running for under $3000. To me that would mean purchasing the LS1 engine complete for about $2000.

I'm having trouble finding anything in that price range, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm looking in the wrong places or if my budget was too "optimistic".

I'm asking people here because if any group knows what it's like stuffing an LS into a vehicle that came with "other" engine options it'd be "Grassroots". The LS1 I'm looking for will eventually be mated to an Audi transaxle.

If it turns out that my $3000 "up and running" estimation for an LS series engine is on the "not reasonable" side then I'd rather focus my efforts on trying to build a 302/351 block to produce similar numbers. Hopefully for less money.

Buying and cannibalizing a vehicle was also an option I was beginning to consider...

An aside. i wonder how much weight could be cut from an iron 4.8/5.3 block with some judicious grinder work. It looks to me that you can get 10-15lb off of the block fairly easily.

I feel like they're going up. Iron 5.3's used to be common in the 400-500 range. Now you're lucky to find a 100k mile example under 750. Still cheap in the grand scheme of things. Now even the 4.8's are the 500 motor. Five years ago they were almost free.

I have had some luck searching for "project" in the Auto Parts section on CL, the latest being an L33 mostly complete with need to sell because of baby due for $700.

"Unknown condition" does add quite a bit of variation into the pricing.

belteshazzar wrote: I feel like they're going up. Iron 5.3's used to be common in the 400-500 range. Now you're lucky to find a 100k mile example under 750. Still cheap in the grand scheme of things. Now even the 4.8's are the 500 motor. Five years ago they were almost free.

Thanks to all of 243/799 heads on the later 4.8s along with the ZOMG boost builds, the price has WAY gone up.

Before that, the 4.8 was treated as the GenIII version of the 305 and L99/4.3. A common misconception was the bore was too small to make power . . . but the 5.3 was fine, even though they share the same bore size

Aluminum LS architecture:

• LM4
• L33
• LS1
• LS2
• LH6
• L76
• L92
• L99
• LS3
• LS7
• LSA/LS9

Depending on what book you read or who you talk to, iron block adds 80-100 lbs.

Keith Tanner wrote: So I bought a running 1998 6-speed Camaro Z28 for $4k, took the parts I wanted and sold the rest.

This is going to be the easiest way to get what you want on the cheap.

The funny part is that I didn't part it out very far. There are only about a dozen 4th gen Camaros in this area code, I think. I sold a few bits like the radiator, but not much. So I just put the remains up on CL and sold it in about 8 hours. The shop that bought it put an LS1 and T56 back in it and sold it as a complete car!

Silly question. Are the Ford engines just as expensive?

Windsor 302?? Nah pretty cheap. But the 302 has the nice abilty to split itself down the valley where the LS motors laugh and ask for more.

In reply to Brett,

Mod motors or a 20+ year old pushrod motor?

Strike_Zero wrote:

belteshazzar wrote: I feel like they're going up. Iron 5.3's used to be common in the 400-500 range. Now you're lucky to find a 100k mile example under 750. Still cheap in the grand scheme of things. Now even the 4.8's are the 500 motor. Five years ago they were almost free.

Thanks to all of 243/799 heads on the later 4.8s along with the ZOMG boost builds, the price has WAY gone up. Before that, the 4.8 was treated as the GenIII version of the 305 and L99/4.3. A common misconception was the bore was too small to make power . . . but the 5.3 was fine, even though they share the same bore size Aluminum LS architecture: - LM4 - L33 - LS1 - LS2 - LH6 - L76 - L92 - L99 - LS3 - LS7 - LSA/LS9 Depending on what book you read or who you talk to, iron block adds 80-100 lbs.

I'll be wikipedia-ing the crap out of that post for quite a while. Thanks!

In reply to Strike_Zero:

What about that "Coyote" engine Ford makes. What is the details/cost/reliability like?

Here you go http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/4467303042.html

Strike_Zero wrote: Windsor 302?? Nah pretty cheap. But the 302 has the nice abilty to split itself down the valley where the LS motors laugh and ask for more.

Pretty much this... any GenIII with a cam and headers is pretty much guaranteed to be able to make power that would get a 5.0 into the "two piece crank" or "held together by the intake manifold and oil pan" club... AFTER you spend cubic dollars on good heads or forced induction or both.

The dohc mod motors and new coyote engines are pretty big.

The 4.6 dohc motor while fairly light but are physically the same size of a 460 big block. The coyotes are a bit smaller in size, but still fairly new which makes it $$$. Cams = $$$$, but they love boost!!

The sohc motors suffer from similar width issues.

http://www.sullivanperformance.com/yvs450/tech/tech1.htm

Hungary Bill wrote: I'm asking people here because if any group knows what it's like stuffing an LS into a vehicle that came with "other" engine options it'd be "Grassroots". The LS1 I'm looking for will eventually be mated to an Audi transaxle.

IIRC, one of the guys on Motorgeek mated an LS2 to an Audi transaxle in an S6 (RS6?) with a blown engine. The only details I remember are that the Kennedy adapter setup thoroughly blew to the point of being scary so he made his own plate and flywheel arrangement. I didn't pay much attention to the build because the term-inventiveness of certain people really, really pisses me off and it is hard to read things that make one pissed off. (It's called a Gen III V8 not a berkeleying "ellis" you berkeleying toolbag berkeleywit STOP SAYING THAT YOU LOOK LIKE A berkeleyING IDIOT WHEN YOU DO THAT BEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRK)

steps back, breathes, comes back

There are a lot of resources available for people doing swaps. Unfortunately, the information is difficult to sort through sometimes. There is one very, very good resource with photographic diagrams of oil pan shapes, accessory drives, and so forth. I have it bookmarked at work, I can get that tomorrow if you'd like.

The short version is that electronically, there are certain year ranges you can work with if you want to stick with the drive by wire stuff. The drive by wire system went through three different generations and swapping between them is difficult to impossible.

I bought a wrecked but running 98 Z28 for $3000 two years ago. By the time I sold everything I didn't want I had an LS1, harness, ECU, and some odds and ends plus $200 in my pocket. I sold the engine and harness for $800 after it sat for a year.

Bought a non-running badly wrecked 5.7 99 pickup from the same guy right after the Camaro carcass left. Paid $2000, made it all back and again had the engine, harness, and ECU left over. Sold it for $500 to a friend.

Buying and parting is the way to ge here. Being my friend doesn't hurt

The guys I used for Fbody parts told me they got around 2K for an LS1 and close to 3800 for a combo w/ T56 and ecu. There are a lot of Fbody salvagers around here because they are almost always worth more as parts, I could have almost doubled my money if I parted my Z28 instead of selling it, and I had the boat anchor LT1. If you do some networking and are patient you can pick them up cheaper.

One friend picked one up to put in his truck for 1200 with T56. Another picked up 6 T56s for scrap value, made his money back many many many times over.

ive been told a 5.3 in LS1 trim is only down about 15-20 hp.

Around here 5.3s can still be found for about 600, thats what Id run. last I checked pick and pull was pretty reasonable on 5.3 prices or if you find a yard that doesnt think every V8 is worth ridiculous money or hasnt earmarked every one of them for their project car or some friends dirt track car you can do pretty good.

I swear most junk yards around here would rather have the parts than the money, everything good isnt for sale or they want like triple what its worth so no one buys it and they can talk to the good ole boys about 3/4 race cams and cheater slicks.

The above comment makes me sad bc I always kinda wanted a Trans am someday. Now I know the there probably won t be any left bc they are all hacked to pieces

Dude, car part is your friend.

4.8

5.3 aluminum

5.3

5.3 Even more!