Say it ain't so. Mazda destroys tooling?

I heard on Bring a Trailer that Mazda destroyed all its tooling for pre-RX-8 rotaries or something of the sort. Can anyone confirm, deny? Why would a company that loves to tout it's racing heritage do such a thing?

I know that rotor housings for the older engines are NLA; I've never heard anything about the tooling being destroyed though. I suppose it's possible. BaT isn't always the best source for accurate auto knowledge, though.

Maybe it wore out. That does happen.

I'd think the only difference in tooling is just core molds, since most/all of the machining operations haven't really changed since 1967. Same dimensions on everything.

It was not making any money?

Question is why would they NOT destroy/scrap the tooling? Not like they will ever use it again.

Anything rotary related being destroyed is sad

All car manufacturers do this sort of thing, and always have. When tooling becomes obsolete it costs money to keep it around.

One exception were the body presses for the MGB and MG Midget. They sat around for decades until some dedicated enthusiasts in the UK resurrected them and started creating new bodyshells and various body parts. Not typically seen here, but there are a few around. The new bodyshells haven't sold all that well in the States because parts cars are too cheap and rebodied cars are too expensive after shipping costs, etc.

A lot of them sell it to aftermarket corporations... there are companies that bought ford's tooling for the f series and continue to produce parts made from the factory tooling.

In reply to Basil Exposition:

It's also much easier to get a decent MGB shell over here than it is in the UK.

Its quite common for sheet metal dies to wear out - they have a certain spec range, once the dies fall out of spec due to use wearing them down (corners arent as crisp or distances between measurable points change), manufacturers usually sell them to the aftermarket...thats how you can find new fenders for an 89 SE-R on eBay. Its not Nissan whos making those, but its likely an old die that Nissan used at one time...

Basil Exposition wrote: One exception were the body presses for the MGB and MG Midget. They sat around for decades until some dedicated enthusiasts in the UK resurrected them and started creating new bodyshells and various body parts. Not typically seen here, but there are a few around. The new bodyshells haven't sold all that well in the States because parts cars are too cheap and rebodied cars are too expensive after shipping costs, etc.

British Motoring Heritage, correct? Their pictures of bare MGB/Mini frames are excellent references.

Hungary Bill wrote: Anything rotary related being destroyed is GREAT

Fixed for accuracy.

Bobzilla wrote:

Hungary Bill wrote: Anything rotary related being destroyed is GREAT

Fixed for accuracy.

You make Bill sad

There are often tax incentives for this type of action as well. If a company "permanently disables" (destroys) capitol equipment it's sometimes possible to claim it as research and development expenses and write it off on taxes. If you don't plan to use the equipment any more this is clearly a logical choice for any company.

If it is obsolete and no longer used, get rid of it.

Doesen't mean that Mazda has given up on the rotary, just that the old tools no longer work.

So?

Yay for flat torque curves that are = to a sportbike, poor mileage/HP per unit of fuel used and tiny engines that are exceedingly heavy!

Exceedingly heavy? I can just about pick up the dressed 13B in my garage.

DaveEstey wrote: Exceedingly heavy? I can just about pick up the dressed 13B in my garage.

Yeah, I don't get that bit at all. Dense, sure, but not heavy by engine standards.

DaveEstey wrote: Exceedingly heavy? I can just about pick up the dressed 13B in my garage.

I build engines in my friend's basement, over a bucket or a wheel.

Then I pick them up by myself, carry them up two flights of stairs, through the kitchen, down some more stairs, and deposit it into the back of the station wagon. I'm not a particularly burly guy, either.

They're heavy for their size, but just about the only automotive engines of similar actual weight and power are SOHC Subaru EJs, which are within 10lb or so of a 13B. But you need one of those fancy turbo things to make any power from a SOHC EJ, while making power with a rotary is mostly a factor of porting. And porting. And porting. But porting is mostly free...

In reply to Knurled:

I have an extra 13B needing a rebuild. What do you charge?

I just don't understand the unfounded hate of rotary's.....

Aside from that it is sad yes but there will always be an aftermarket looking to make some money.

I only build engines for myself, and every one I do usually has "never again!" as a repeated mantra. Did I mention hours of porting? And clearancing the seals takes a lot of time if you want to get the specs spot on - this engine is at .0015" side seal clearance and exactly .002 apex slot clearance. On the flip side, it was worth the trouble.

I couldn't build an engine for someone else because then I wouldn't get to enjoy it, you know? I don't place much value on money, just experiences.

I like the way you think.

I said heavy based on it's weight compared to an LS1 that will make twice the power and get better mileage in the same car.

I've driven an RX-7 and an RX-8, cool and all, I've just never understood the love fest for rotaries.

Meh.