In reply to Flight Service:
Yep, here in Florida, my wife and I still get a chuckle every time we see an xB coming down the road with a gray head behind the wheel. It must be killing Toyota's marketing "experts". It seems OLD people like to buy inexpensive, practical, reliable cars.
captdownshift wrote: In reply to SilverFleet: I thought that a glass roof delete option would cut down on the weight while lowering the center of gravity on the 1st Gen TC, all while likely lowering production cost.
I mean, it was cool for about a week to have a roof like that, but when that thing broke... oh man...
Luckily her insurance covered it under the "glass" coverage, but she had to fight for it. There were exactly zero replacement parts in the country, so they had to get everything from overseas. No overnight parts from Japan with this one.. the car was down for a few MONTHS while she had it repaired. Then there was the fight of who could actually fix it between the glass company, the dealer, and the insurance company... What caused it was the retractable roof mechanism binding, and it tried bending that giant sheet of glass. Yeah, that didn't work out so well!
I wonder how many other TC's had that issue.
Another case of "Let's open up another sales channel, and invest a ton of money in it. We're going to revolutionize the way cars are sold, and conquest a new market. It's a retailing revolution!" Then reality sets in and they lose interest and let it die. Amati, Phaeton, or Maybach, anyone?
In reply to car39:
Reminds me more of Saturn than anything else because of the "no haggle" pricing BS, but yeah! 
The Scion Xb is going away, the Nissan Cube and Honda Element are already gone.........that leaves only the Kia Soul to carry on the boxy/quirky thing here in the States. Guess us Amuricans don't much like boxy things......aside from a couple of billion SUVs and pick up trucks that is. Scion just never made any sense at all to me.
SilverFleet wrote: In reply to car39: Reminds me more of Saturn than anything else because of the "no haggle" pricing BS, but yeah!
And to me, that right there is a reason not to buy one. If I'm buying from a dealer and they won't negotiate on the price (new or used), I'm walking right out the door and never coming back no matter how much I want that car.
rslifkin wrote:SilverFleet wrote: In reply to car39: Reminds me more of Saturn than anything else because of the "no haggle" pricing BS, but yeah!And to me, that right there is a reason not to buy one. If I'm buying from a dealer and they won't negotiate on the price (new or used), I'm walking right out the door and never coming back no matter how much I want that car.
negotiating on a white good (lets be honest, cars are not an investment, they are a white good) is rather silly to me and I'd prefer to avoid that whenever possible. So no haggle pricing works for me!
In reply to Ian F:
Ya know, automotive focus groups sure aren't focused. You'd think the correct thought process would be something like: "the majority of young people can't afford cars. The majority of Young people aren't interested in cars. Let's target the minority. Let's build CHEAP, ENTHUSIASTS vehicles." If a manufacturer made a 15k rwd chassis, they would blow the DOORS of the sales department. If they then stepped it up to a 20k performance oreinted AWD they would destroy subaru's death grip. It's all about getting the right vehicle in the right hands. And you can't tell me the big three cant make a sub 20k rwd...
Trackmouse wrote: And you can't tell me the big three cant make a sub 20k rwd...
Well, they're pretty close right now as it is. The Colorado starts at $20,100. The Nissan Frontier is at $18k and change.
Danny Shields wrote: In reply to Flight Service: Yep, here in Florida, my wife and I still get a chuckle every time we see an xB coming down the road with a gray head behind the wheel. It must be killing Toyota's marketing "experts". It seems OLD people like to buy inexpensive, practical, reliable cars.
well, most old people are on a fixed income and the XB was both cheap to buy and use.. it was also easy to get in and out of both the front and rear.. which when your body does not fold up the way it used to, is a good thing
In reply to Feedyurhed:
I wonder how many hundreds of thousand Elements Honda would've sold with a mild refresh, single color body panels, a 4 cylinder k series turning the front wheels and electric asset motor that drives the rear wheels.
In reply to captdownshift:
Very few at that price range. Would you pay 35k for a hybrid element?
mtn wrote:Trackmouse wrote: And you can't tell me the big three cant make a sub 20k rwd...Well, they're pretty close right now as it is. The Colorado starts at $20,100. The Nissan Frontier is at $18k and change.
The Mustang doesn't start much above $20k either.....it probably starts out cheaper than the frisbee.
drdisque wrote: They could always use the JDM name for the iM - the "Toyota Auris".
Needs to be in the unfortunate name thread.
WOW Really Paul? wrote:mtn wrote:The Mustang doesn't start much above $20k either.....it probably starts out cheaper than the frisbee.Trackmouse wrote: And you can't tell me the big three cant make a sub 20k rwd...Well, they're pretty close right now as it is. The Colorado starts at $20,100. The Nissan Frontier is at $18k and change.
The Mustang IS cheaper, at least as far as MSRP goes.
Mustang MSRP = $24,145
FRS MSRP = $25,305
BRZ MSRP = $25,395
STM317 wrote:WOW Really Paul? wrote:The Mustang IS cheaper, at least as far as MSRP goes. Mustang MSRP = $24,145 FRS MSRP = $25,305 BRZ MSRP = $25,395mtn wrote:The Mustang doesn't start much above $20k either.....it probably starts out cheaper than the frisbee.Trackmouse wrote: And you can't tell me the big three cant make a sub 20k rwd...Well, they're pretty close right now as it is. The Colorado starts at $20,100. The Nissan Frontier is at $18k and change.
This had me looking at the Gen Coupe's remember the 2.0T starting in the 22-23k range. They no longer offer the 2.0..... Whendid that happen?
In reply to Bobzilla:
Pretty recently, apparently. I just helped my step-son pick out a used Accent, and I asked about a couple Genesis coupes on the lot, he mentioned the fact it's only offered with a V6(starting this year, IIRC) and is now a $30k car.
mtn wrote:Trackmouse wrote: And you can't tell me the big three cant make a sub 20k rwd...Well, they're pretty close right now as it is. The Colorado starts at $20,100. The Nissan Frontier is at $18k and change.
The Colorado may start at $20,100 on paper, but I work at a GM dealership and have yet to see one under $30,000. A lot of them are knocking on used full-size truck prices.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Unfortunately Toyota took the peppy, upbeat brand and made it just as beige as the rest of Toyotas lineup, even though they tried hard to still appeal to college kids.
That seems to be the big thing - with the exception of the FR-S, they let Toyota's Department of Corporate Blandness get their hands on too many of the Scions. They made the xB a bigger, blander version of itself, the redesigned tC was less aggressive looking and drove more like a Camry, etc. The brand started to lose what had made it distinctive, and was starting to become just another set of Toyotas.
MadScientistMatt wrote:SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Unfortunately Toyota took the peppy, upbeat brand and made it just as beige as the rest of Toyotas lineup, even though they tried hard to still appeal to college kids.That seems to be the big thing - with the exception of the FR-S, they let Toyota's Department of Corporate Blandness get their hands on too many of the Scions. They made the xB a bigger, blander version of itself, the redesigned tC was less aggressive looking and drove more like a Camry, etc. The brand started to lose what had made it distinctive, and was starting to become just another set of Toyotas.
So Toyota truly has become the new Buick. The Scions were just Pontiacs.
car39 wrote: Another case of "Let's open up another sales channel, and invest a ton of money in it. We're going to revolutionize the way cars are sold, and conquest a new market. It's a retailing revolution!" Then reality sets in and they lose interest and let it die. Amati, Phaeton, or Maybach, anyone?
Sometimes it works (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura), sometimes it doesn't (the ones above, plus anyone remember Merkur?). I'm not sure what needs to happen to make it work.
MadScientistMatt wrote:SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Unfortunately Toyota took the peppy, upbeat brand and made it just as beige as the rest of Toyotas lineup, even though they tried hard to still appeal to college kids.That seems to be the big thing - with the exception of the FR-S, they let Toyota's Department of Corporate Blandness get their hands on too many of the Scions. They made the xB a bigger, blander version of itself, the redesigned tC was less aggressive looking and drove more like a Camry, etc. The brand started to lose what had made it distinctive, and was starting to become just another set of Toyotas.
The tC never seemed to be utilized to it's full potential. Why did they never make sportier versions with turbo or supercharged engines or some screaming NA piece with sticky tires and suspension? Oh, right, because it's Toyota
car39 wrote: Another case of "Let's open up another sales channel, and invest a ton of money in it. We're going to revolutionize the way cars are sold, and conquest a new market. It's a retailing revolution!" Then reality sets in and they lose interest and let it die. Amati, Phaeton, or Maybach, anyone?
Saturn and Fiat would like to offer a counterpoint.
In reply to Trackmouse:
If the big 3 can sell pickups with smaller diesels that see 30mpg highway for 40k and more, I don't think Honda would've had an issue selling some mid 30mpg awd elements in the 35k range.
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