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Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 Dork
8/19/14 1:50 p.m.

so my truck went to the body shop last fall with straight water in the cooling system. the bodyman drained the radiator and left the petcock and heater hoses open, but did not drain the block or add any antifreeze (i asked him to).

apparently the water froze over winter. the two freeze plugs behind the motor mounts are completely pushed out and rattling around. all freeze plugs were brass. i see no others that were puched out visually, but have not pulled the engine down or out yet.

additionally, i had low oil pressure when it went in. 20lbs cold idle at 650rpm. bot great, but my oil line was also leaking so i assumed an incorrect reading. the gauge is in a brass t-fitting at the back of the block by the distributor. the t fitting also holds the sender for the idiot light.

now that the truck is back and out of bodyshop hell, and running again (with no cooling system. just fired up for a minute or so) ive only got about 10lbs at the same idle specs cold. the aguge needle really doesnt move at all.

what are my chances here of not having a boat anchor, and how do i check things over without a machine shop bill or dumping a bunch of money into guesswork? id rather know wether the motor is junk now before i put the thing back together, as its much easier to pull the engine with no front clip.

thanks guys. michael

stan_d
stan_d Dork
8/19/14 2:19 p.m.

Had it happen to me also on a small block. I just reinstalled the brass freeze plugs and all was good. It is a major pia though. I didn't have any troubles.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
8/19/14 2:44 p.m.

They sell them things at the auto parts store, you know.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 Dork
8/19/14 2:49 p.m.

I guess im not doing well enough with reading comprehension today dr hess. What?

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
8/19/14 2:52 p.m.

Freeze Plugs. They sell them at auto parts stores. You buy them and a tube of pookie and beat them into the block. Fixed. Then you put some Toyota Red Antifreeze in and it won't happen again.

Duke
Duke UltimaDork
8/19/14 3:27 p.m.

I thought, in fact, that popping out to relieve expansion pressure was the point of freeze plugs...?

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 Dork
8/19/14 3:32 p.m.

Do pretty much slam em bsck in, fill the system, pull the pin and seeif I get a mmilkshake?

yamaha
yamaha UltimaDork
8/19/14 3:42 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Yep, that easy

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic PowerDork
8/19/14 5:14 p.m.
Duke wrote: I thought, in fact, that popping out to relieve expansion pressure was the *point* of freeze plugs...?

They call em freeze plugs because freezing pushes them out, but the real primary purpose is to hold up the sand forms in there during casting, and then have a easy way to get the sand out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug

Cheap universal full strength coolant is ~$10 a gallon last I checked, racecars aside, there's no excuse not to use it.

NGTD
NGTD SuperDork
8/19/14 5:17 p.m.

My mom did this to a boat. It cracked something bad enough to leak water. You might have a boat anchor.

f6sk
f6sk Reader
8/19/14 5:44 p.m.

The freeze crack is most common in the valley near the lifters

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UberDork
8/19/14 6:39 p.m.
f6sk wrote: The freeze crack is most common in the valley near the lifters

Yeah.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
8/19/14 6:57 p.m.

Fixed if you're lucky, that is. It's worth a shot. Worst case, I'd say that body shop owes you at least an R&R on the motor. I mean, your fault for no antifreeze. Their fault for not doing what you asked and putting some in. But you might get lucky. I've seen vehicles freeze up and survive.

Rob_Mopar
Rob_Mopar SuperDork
8/19/14 8:19 p.m.

Fix the ones that popped out, refill and run it. It's probably fine. I have a 360 up here that froze solid before. Previous owner was racing it late in the season. Got a deep cold spell early. Was frozen solid for about a week. After everything thawed out ran it and it was fine.

TRoglodyte
TRoglodyte SuperDork
8/19/14 9:12 p.m.
Streetwiseguy wrote:
f6sk wrote: The freeze crack is most common in the valley near the lifters
Yeah.

And they can conceivably run with this condition. Saw it happen to a 454 Chevrolet.

novaderrik
novaderrik PowerDork
8/20/14 3:05 a.m.

what year is this small block Chevy? if it's a mid 70's and older block and heads, then it's a bit more heavy duty than the later stuff and is probably fine. if it's a later model, then it's also probably fine, just slightly more likely to be junk than the older stuff with more metal in it..

you just gotta put new core plugs in it, which will be easy since you said the front clip is off the truck and that means the engine is a half an hour from sitting on your garage floor at most. while it's out, you can check the plugs in the bellhousing area and look for any other cracks. and since it's out, might as well mist the engine with a couple of cans of Chevy orange engine paint and hit the frame with some Rustoleum semi gloss black....

MichaelYount
MichaelYount Reader
8/20/14 3:46 a.m.

I'd be more concerned about 10 psig of oil pressure at a cold idle....

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic PowerDork
8/20/14 5:21 a.m.

In reply to MichaelYount:

Yeah, makes ya wonder if said freezing might have somehow taken out the oil galley.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 Dork
8/20/14 5:36 a.m.

Im definitely concerned by it all as well. I usually have my cars set up to be good down to 0 degree farenheight, but had not dont the 64 yet. Alzo didn't expect it to be in the body shop for a year. Anyway, the low oil pressure is what concerns me more than the freeze plugs. Eould there be a common crack spot that would cause this one? Im also going to try a different gauge and line to eliminate that asa ppossibility.

noddaz
noddaz GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/20/14 8:15 a.m.
Kenny_McCormic wrote:
Duke wrote: I thought, in fact, that popping out to relieve expansion pressure was the *point* of freeze plugs...?
They call em freeze plugs because freezing pushes them out, but the real primary purpose is to hold up the sand forms in there during casting, and then have a easy way to get the sand out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_plug

This explains it. All you can do at this point is drive new freeze plugs in and pressure test the system and hope for the best. Good luck.

novaderrik
novaderrik PowerDork
8/20/14 12:48 p.m.
MichaelYount wrote: I'd be more concerned about 10 psig of oil pressure at a cold idle....

what kind of a filter are you running? the orange ones with the bedliner on the end so you can grip it will show lower oil pressure than a good one from NAPA/Wix.. and as long as the gauge moves at all and/or the light goes out, it's good... it's a small block, they don't really need oil pressure to survive.. i'd be more worried about the cam deciding that it wants some of it's lobes to be nice and flat if it's been sitting for a while..

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 Dork
8/20/14 1:05 p.m.

Im running a microgaurd filter. Going to check oil level and what it looks like tonight. If all goes according to plan, ill pull the motor and pound the plugs back in friday. Unless theres obviously something cracked.

Machine shop has a fresh shortblock for 600, so worst case...

Damn I didn't need this right now. ..

MichaelYount
MichaelYount Reader
8/20/14 3:05 p.m.
novaderrik wrote: i'd be more worried about the cam deciding that it wants some of it's lobes to be nice and flat if it's been sitting for a while..

Low cold start oil pressure will help accomplish that too....

MichaelYount
MichaelYount Reader
8/20/14 3:06 p.m.
novaderrik wrote: i'd be more worried about the cam deciding that it wants some of it's lobes to be nice and flat if it's been sitting for a while..

Low cold start oil pressure will help accomplish that too....

If you're seeing 10 psig with cold oil, you won't be seeing much pressure at all once it warms up.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic PowerDork
8/20/14 8:15 p.m.

I think microguards are fram orange cans with different paint, but that changes so often I lose track. Just avoid the orange can and anything with a plastic center and you should be ok.

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