Scan tools to handle manufacturer-specific systems

I figured I'd start a new thread for this, since it isn't really specific to my Volvo, but that's what prompted it.

Volvo, as many of you know, uses VIDA software run through a proprietary bit of hardware known as DICE, to interface with their systems. This, it turns out, is sort of an enormous PITA. My BMW is accessible via factory INPA/ISTA software, but I decided to just buy a scan tool that would read all the BMW-specific codes, and give me a lot of the live data and testing functions. My first thought was to check if the manufacturer of my BMW scanner (Foxwell) offered a Volvo module - they do not. I looked for Volvo scanners on Amazon - they exist, though none of the descriptions are very useful in understanding exactly what they can and cannot do.

My multi-part question, therefore, is based on the hope that I can find something that will do it all and not cost me a kidney. Ideally, I'd be able to buy something that will handle all of my cars (Volvo, BMW, and Mazda), plus other stuff like my parents' and brother's Audis, and so on. Failing that, something that I can get software modules for to cover what I need in a single device. And if that doesn't exist, at least a Volvo-specific scan tool that does most of what VIDA/DICE does without the hassle. Any enlightenment on options would be great; recommendations would be even better.

As a guy that knows how to tune a carb, and adjust points, I'm not familiar with the alphabet soup that get used in this type a subject. 
This may not be the place for it, but I, for one could use a bit farther explanation, sometimes. 
Ma be too much to include, and I would entirely understand. 

In reply to 03Panther :

Sorry. I dislike the jargon, but I guess I've gotten used to it. Basically, many manufacturers have proprietary software that goes above and beyond the legally-required OBD2 codes, and offers the opportunity to do much more extensive diagnostics, and sometimes even monitoring live data and coding. I'm looking for something that gives me access to the manufacturer-level stuff without fighting with the often-finicky software dealers use.

You might take a look at the Innova 5160RS and some of its counterparts. It has been a pretty comprehensive and complimentary add to my other scan tools and vehicle specific software. If you visit their site and enter your vehicle, it will give you a pretty good idea of model specific capabilities. 

Lou Manglass

I am with you; I have been reading (very mixed) reviews of Chinese clones of the GM Tech 2 this week and wondering if I should gamble a chunk of money on something that may just give my laptop a virus.  

MagicRatchet, has the Innova website's descriptions of its capabilities been accurate in your experience?  I can find a dozen scan tools that say they'll do what I need (ABS auto-bleed for 2006 Z06) but the reviews of people who've bought them say about half of 'em are lying/in error.

I have a Foxwell unit that says it has ABS capability, but it won't communicate with the Z06.  It worked on my Prius, however.  

In reply to TheMagicRatchet :

That does look like a pretty decent option. How have you found Innova's support? The 5160RS doesn't cover my 2021 Miata - is this the sort of thing they update periodically, or are you left with whatever coverage you had at time of purchase? It's more money than I was hoping to spend, but if they update their software regularly it would have a lot of use over its lifetime, and thus might be worth the premium.

I will say that their nomenclature is somewhat confusing. I can't figure out the difference between the 5160RS and the 5610, for example.

Best bet is gonna be the real thing or a Chinese clone.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804482840494.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.7dcd10e6w3K6vo&algo_pvid=55394803-a6b9-4a07-91a8-2046fba4acda&algo_exp_id=55394803-a6b9-4a07-91a8-2046fba4acda-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000030044326269%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%2173.78%2172.31%21%21%21%21%21%4021227d8316661135848773914d078c%2112000030044326269%21sea&curPageLogUid=SwwIMZbg9D7m

If you are worried about the security, do the following

-Buy through EBay or pay with a special credit card just for dumb stuff to Ali Express

-Get an old i5 laptop and just use it for scan tool purposes, not personal stuff.

Although at this point your smart TV, smart phone, smart Watch, Nest, etc is just as nefarious as the stuff from China, so YOLO and don't worry about it.  

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I have one of those DICE clones - it came with the car. It's just the headache of setting up the software, getting a suitable laptop, blah blah blah. Plus it doesn't help with with any other brands. I think I'm willing to give up a little functionality to gain more universal applicability and a less fussy user experience.

I have a Foxwell 510 Elite that I bought a few years ago.  I bought it with the Honda software, and subsequently loaded on the Toyota software.  It reads manufacturer specific codes, and adds a ton of functions (like ABS bleeding, etc.).  I would say the biggest negative is the documentation around the factory software.  For instance, I have a spare key and fob for my Odyssey that's not programmed, but it's not clear how to program it, and I don't know where to go to get an answer.  So to sum it up, it's very powerful (and aside from the key has done everything I've needed it for), but the documentation (especially for the OEM software) is basically non-existent.  As another example, I have an '04 Saab 9-3, and I'm not clear if I should get the Saab-specific software or the GM one (a lot of changes require a Tech2 scanner).  I could probably ask on a Saab forum, but I might be the only Foxwell user on there.

I used it to prove to the dealer where I bought my Odyssey that the transmission was slipping, which got me a used transmission and a free install, so it's paid for itself in spades.

Will the " Right to Repair" laws give us access to some of the factory code readers ?

In reply to 02Pilot :

The coverage as indicated on the site is close, if not correct, as far as I have been able to determine. I have used it mostly on Subaru, Chevrolet, and Hyundai and it has met my needs so far. I used it on a mini yesterday and, although coverage was limited, it did everything I needed and more. I have also used it on Volkswagen, in a lot of cases it's easier to use and much more convenient then Vag-Com. The differences in model numbers seems to have more to do with who sells it than any real differences in the tool. Previously I have been working with Vag-Com, Forscan, and a Snap-On MT2500 for pre-CanBus and OBD 1. It's certainly not equivalent to a manufacturer's tool but it doesn't cost thousands and should do 90% of what you want. 

Lou Manglass

For your brother's Audi the tool you want is VCDS.  https://www.ross-tech.com

Dunno about Volvo, sorry.

Any suggestions for newer GM products?  I need something that will talk to our 2010 SAAB 9-5.

californiamilleghia said:

Will the " Right to Repair" laws give us access to some of the factory code readers ?

It might make them available, but it won't make them cheap.

Forscan is great for Ford and Mazda products. Given Volvo's history, it will probably work with at least some Volvos.

For GM, I'm pretty sure HP Tuners will pull a lot of detailed info. You might also be able to pull some good info out of CAN but not with a Big Friendly Interface. I've found an OBD scanner plus a factory manual is quite useful - the standard ODB codes are a bit generic, the factory manual will say "these things can cause this specific code" and hopefully "here's a troubleshooting procedure, start here...". 

02Pilot said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I have one of those DICE clones - it came with the car. It's just the headache of setting up the software, getting a suitable laptop, blah blah blah. Plus it doesn't help with with any other brands. I think I'm willing to give up a little functionality to gain more universal applicability and a less fussy user experience.

Nah fam, you dont wanna do that.  Learn and embrace the clone since its already bought and paid for.  Any of the other offerings are OK at best.  Unless you are a for-profit shop and can swing the note on a Snap-On Zeus and all the updates, the chinese clones are the best bet for any deep level features.  Yeah I know its gonna take more learning and whatnot, but the final product is gonna be a lot better.  If you need some support, the pay-to-play forum at MHH Auto is very good with figuring out all the weird scanners and how to configure them.  

HP Tuners and the like (EFI Live) will only do limited functionality and is focused on powertrain modules.  For any of the other stuff you gotta look at the factory tools like a Tech II or a TechIIWin.  Tech IIs go to 2013, after that you want an MDI.  

I've been down this path a lot and while its painful to learn 100 different factory scan tools, especially the nuances getting them to work with chinese cloned software and whatnot, its worth it in the end to have the same programming options the dealer does.  

The only thing I know of is a tool from TOPDON:

https://www.topdon.us/collections/professional-series/products/phoenix-remote

It's a service that pretty much turns the unit into an OBD port extender. On the other end is pretty much a library of every scan tool available. You set up an appointment, plug in the tool to the car, then to your network. The tool connects to a base unit at HQ that is then plugged into whichever diagnostic tool you need. It is aimed at shops though but still way cheaper than buying OEM tools.

I have questions around this as well. My brother just bought a 2009 jcw mini and just after driving it home it went into limp mode for a generic knock sensor code. Will buying a bmw scanner tell me more useful information for tracking down the real problem? Or will it just return the same generic code the cheap scanner did? apologies if this is a thread jack, seams related to me though

slefain said:

The only thing I know of is a tool from TOPDON:

https://www.topdon.us/collections/professional-series/products/phoenix-remote

It's a service that pretty much turns the unit into an OBD port extender. On the other end is pretty much a library of every scan tool available. You set up an appointment, plug in the tool to the car, then to your network. The tool connects to a base unit at HQ that is then plugged into whichever diagnostic tool you need. It is aimed at shops though but still way cheaper than buying OEM tools.

That's a great idea.  I wonder if there could be a lot of issues though with data rates and latency over the interwebs .

Sorry it's taken me this long to get back here. I understand the point about the value of getting the factory stuff working, and I intend to do that at some point, but right now I don't have the time, the laptop, or the patience. One of these handhelds is probably in my future, even with its limitations. Depending on how good or bad it is, I will either be less or more motivated to get the DICE/VIDA working.

I checked on Forscan - I could find no evidence of it working with Volvo, and quite a few people who said it would not communicate with anything.

For the question about MINI/BMW, my Foxwell scanner with the BMW software has been quite good, and will definitely give you more and better information than a generic OBD2 scanner.

I've been pleased with my Foxwell, I just wish the OEM software was better-documented. Can you add the Volvo and Mazda software to your Foxwell scanner? I'm planning to add either the Saab or GM software to mine in the near future. I think the coat was pretty reasonable, like $70-80 per manufacturer.

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Mazda yes, Volvo no. If I could add both I would have just done that, though I share your frustration with the poor documentation.

californiamilleghia said:

Will the " Right to Repair" laws give us access to some of the factory code readers ?

It's always been available, just not for free.

Bumping this back up. With Black Friday in the offing, I've been casually looking at what's out there in the hopes of getting one at a discount. Right now I'm leaning toward this unit from Launch. I have no experience with the brand, but it seems to offer more capability than any of the other comparable units (including the Innova mentioned earlier in the thread, though that's still in the running due to the lower price). Any experience with the brand, or even this scanner?

Well, I pulled the trigger on the Launch unit linked above on a Black Friday deal, and it arrived today. I've only had a chance to do a quick preliminary evaluation by plugging it into the Volvo (since I was working on it today anyway), but it seems to work pretty smoothly and offered access to all sorts of factory modules and functions, including live data and actuation tests. There were a lot of stored DTCs, but none of them related to anything I have experienced, so after checking them all I deleted them; after a short test drive, none of them have returned. I'll dig deeper when I have time (or need, whichever comes first), but at first blush I'm impressed. If it does as well with my BMW, I will be offering up my Schwaben/Foxwell BMW scanner for sale here.

I have an older launch gds scanner that has served me well.  Mine came with a number of adapters for vehicles with non obd2 plugs as well.  My only issue with it is the price of the updates is nearly as high as the scanner itself was.  That being said I have had it sense 2013 & am only now running into issues that newer software may fix.

The issues I had were it did not support can data from a 2014 subaru, had to use generic obd for that.  And it did not read the high voltage battery codes out of a 2008 Toyota Prius correctly.

I am leaning towards buying a newer launch instead of upgrading mine as some of the add-ons the newer unit supports like xprog could be useful to me.