SCCA Classing and grassroots tire upgrades

I have been considering my options for a dedicated autoX wheel/tire combo. My idea is to upgrade to the 15" alloys from the second gen Neons or PTs.

I know the new tire size would be 195/55/15 or 205/50/15. Are there any wider sizes that would fit? Also after the discusion over tire width and over/under steer, I was considering 205 up front and 195 in back. Is that a bad idea?

I am also looking for tire recomendations. As much as I would LOVE to run Hoosier A6's these tires will see street use for the drive to and from the coarse.

Finally, what would this do to SCCA classing on an otherwise (almost) stock first gen Neon. I think I could get away with buger bushings and the taller geared SOHC tranny in (?) stock.

I am not 100% sure but, your tranny may screw you...

hmm that didn't sound right

A6's are run on a lot of stock class cars. however you won't be able to run them in any of the street touring classes...

The Falken Azeni RT615 205/50/15 is tried and true; no longer the grippiest, but the best bang for the buck. I know of some autoX guys who run a combination of 225/45/15 front and 205/50/15 rear, but depending on the offset of the rims, they could require spacers to prevent scrubbing.

On the tranny, I prefer the lower geared 3.94, as you can run 90% of courses in 2nd gear, concentrating on driving instead of shifting. I run the 205 - 3.94 combo, and it seems about right to me.

The wheels and bushings would move you to STS (or whatever they call it now) and the tranny would move you to FSP.

The kumo XS is about the same prise as the falken and much grippier

Swapping the final drive would put him in a mod or prepared class wouldn't it?

In reply to z31maniac: update/backdate

The trans swap is SP legal if done as a complete unit, otherwise it's off to SM with him.

parker wrote: In reply to z31maniac: update/backdate

You have to update/backdate everything. So he'd have to use that motor and any other options that came on that car with the trans he wants.

Don't see it being worth the effort though.

Hankook Ventus RS-2's are very inexpensive and similar in performance to the Azenis. Also a pretty good street tire (not too loud or fast-wearing). I was pretty happy with mine considering the price range.

In reply to z31maniac:

According to the rulebook you can update/backdate transaxles as a unit in Street Prepared. SP rules differ from Stock.

I have two manual tranny Neons: one with the 3.94, one with the 3.55. The 3.94 is definitely the one to have for autoX. The 3.55 gives better mileage, though.

Stock 2gn wheels are the same width 6" as 1gns so a 215 is really your limit, not to say that 225s havent been stuffed on.

Back when people still ran neons in stock class, i think they ran 225 hoosiers on the front, they wont fit on the rear though with the stock wheels.

parker wrote: In reply to z31maniac: According to the rulebook you can update/backdate transaxles as a unit in Street Prepared. SP rules differ from Stock.

Interesting.

Although a basically stock neon on street tires in the appropriate SP class will get murdered.

irish44j wrote: Hankook Ventus RS-2's are very inexpensive and similar in performance to the Azenis. Also a pretty good street tire (not too loud or fast-wearing). I was pretty happy with mine considering the price range.

Just put these on my '97 Miata. FYI Tire Rack currently has them on sale.

If I stick with 14" wheels, what are the odds of having the tranny and bushings over looked if I dont declare them? Not that I want to cheat, I just dont want to get screwed on classing Because It was the only transmision I could find, and the bushing where 1/10th the cost of a new linkage

OTOH, I dont really care about being truly "Competetive" in my first season

Honestly just go to the people competing in the class you want to, if the car we're talking about is the R/T in your sig and it still has the dual cam it will be mega slow with a 3.55 believe me Ive done the DOHC/3.55 thing for the same reason you did. They will probably welcome you with the slower car

IIRC there is a provision in the rule book for things like the booger bushings that are a fix for a common problem and offer no real performance advantage, anybody know what it is?

Looks like it is time to resurect this in hopes of getting to an event this year.

As it stands, I'm on my stock 14" wheels with 195/60/14 Potenza RE960AS rubber. No money for a third wheel/tire combo

Buger bushings

3.55 transaxle. It may be slower, but I can hold 2nd till 55-60.

And now the trunk carpet and under hood insulation are gone. If need be I could reinstall before the event.

One last possible issue, the P.O. modified the battery tray to mount a custom CAI. Said CAI is gone and the entire intake is back to stock. The battery hold down is still in place and the battery is secure. Hope this doesn't mess up tech or classing. I will upload a pic of the mod to the tray tomarrow if it helps.

I have been going thrue the rule book and my eyes are starting to bleed. I just want to autoX, I'm not up to anything sinister. Maybe Fate is telling me I shouldn't AX this car

It's not up to fate to tell you whether to aX this car, it's the local group. Come clean with them and sleep well. Tell them it's not the original tranny, but a slower version.. they likely won't have a problem with that. The booger bushings are a non-issue, as they are only a needed replacement part of superior quality. Your tires will of course be a big issue, as Neons like a lot of front rubber, but you can get around some of that with a change in driving style (slow in, fast out) .

My call? Don't worry about all that.. have fun!

neon4891 wrote: Looks like it is time to resurect this in hopes of getting to an event this year. As it stands, I'm on my stock 14" wheels with 195/60/14 Potenza RE960AS rubber. No money for a third wheel/tire combo Buger bushings 3.55 transaxle. It may be slower, but I can hold 2nd till 55-60. And now the trunk carpet and under hood insulation are gone. If need be I could reinstall before the event. One last possible issue, the P.O. modified the battery tray to mount a custom CAI. Said CAI is gone and the entire intake is back to stock. The battery hold down is still in place and the battery is secure. Hope this doesn't mess up tech or classing. I will upload a pic of the mod to the tray tomarrow if it helps. I have been going thrue the rule book and my eyes are starting to bleed. I just want to autoX, I'm not up to anything sinister. Maybe Fate is telling me I shouldn't AX this car

I can hold 55 with my DOHC and the DOHC tranny. You don't need a 3:55 final to get that high. At 55 I am somewhere around 7500 RPM. My MP computer shuts me off at 7800.

It's not whether you can get 55 mph instead of 50 on that short piece of straight, but whether you can maintain 38 mph instead of 33 mph through that 5-cone slalom, and how much of that you can maintain through the pivot cone at the end of the slalom. Neons are cool, and I love them, but they are momentum cars on the course.; we're not going to overpower anyone.

Except for Porsches: they are easy to outrun..

This thread reminds why I do not like the SCCA classing rules at all.

Neons in FSP are nuts. My old Charger 2.2 is also an FSP car and on its best day, prepped to the max, it couldn't keep up with my Neon.

Neons are momentum cars, but they are quicker than many believe, as long as you can keep the revs up.

Just tell them what you have.

If you are worried about getting a trophy card, ask every one in your class first.

I have run with both the glen region and binghamgton region and they are all very understanding and friendly.

I have mods that put me in SM2, I went back to stock wheels and tires to run in Astock, asked everyone in that class if it was cool and they said yes.They still handed me my ass, but didn't mind that I had an Al flywheel etc. If I won or wanted to go on, that would be a no-no.

Don't worry so much about it. Just show up, at registration tell the guy/gal you want to be in whatever class you like and tell them the mods. They might say its cool, they might stick you in another class or they might ask the rest of the group in that class.

Most important thing to do is to show up in a safe car that will pass tech and to show up. Everyone runs the same course. Bring a fold up camp chair and a good attitude

What event are you planning on attending? I hope to get out this year but haven't had time to look at the schedule.

Hope to see you there!