SCCA or NASA?

Long time lurker, first post. Looking for some knowledgable, hopefully experience based, opinions on the following, Which would be the better fit for an amateur looking to get into club racing, with no real interest in solo or autocross events. A little background, I am not a total noobie, having done some high speed track days in open wheel formula cars (avg lap speeds in the 140mph range) as well as three 24 hours of LeMons events. So I feel I am comfortable on track, at speed, with traffic, and have done enough to know I want more wheel to wheel action and not autocross (just not my thing). Due to time and family contraints I have not previously been able to break into the club racing scene. Now I'm ready. I've looked into both, have my own thoughts, but no real first hand experience with either to back it up. I don't want to head down one road, with money, time, etc, spent toward getting a competition license, only to find out a wrong fit. Pros and Cons from where I sit

SCCA: pros-local region is based in my city, home track is about 1.5 hours from my home (Mid Amerca Motorplex) and due to location may be easier to get to know people "in the scene" cons-vast majority of local involvement seems to be in autocross and unsure how many locals are actively in club racing.

NASA: pros-seems to be more focused on wheel to wheel racing, more inline with what I am looking for, easier to get competition license (have 1 day FAASST school at MidAmerica. cons-Midwest and Great Lakes regions are based out of state and tracks they visit are some distance away, may limit racing opportunities.

Thoughts, comments??

By the way, I am in central IOWA. Any other Idiots Out Wandering Around here?

What do you want to drive - do you already have a car? What do the grids look like for each group in region?

I enjoy driving with NASA. Very friendly group of guys, well run events and nice competition in class.

Start going to club races to talk to people and figure out what classes are big in your area. I've done stuff with both, I find folks at NASA events are a little less serious, and that's an advantage for me.

It's not an either or - join both. I'm pretty sure licenses are transferrable from one series to the other.

interested in specE30, spec944, mustang camaro challenge. Pretty open as far as what to drive. Does anyone know how popular these are in Midwest. Just don't want to go race against 4 other cars.

I belong to both.....

-NASA keeps their gates open to the track all night...so you can drop your trailer at any time. SCCA closes the gates as soon as registration closes

-NASA has a superior sign up process....it is all done on line, & assuming you have a season tech. you don't have to talk to no-body until the saturday noonish race group meeting...scca has multiple steps to complete before getting the car off the trailer

-NASA makes it easier to get a hold of someone who knows stuff....the race director, the event director, etc. are all accessable...there is a "Group leader" available to. SCCA has waaaay too many ppl around, and everyone points to someone else when you got questions.

-NASA by FAR has a better program to get average joe driver on the track and into door-2-door racing (5 levels of lapping type...then goto comp. school). SCCA expect you to get a driver's license, do an auto-x, and show up at a comp. school

-NASA has a class for every car, w/ any amount of mods....there may not be anyone else in your class...but..

SCCA, has more races that are close to me.

SCCA, has more competitors

SCCA has more competitors in my class

SCCA has more contingency

....being both clubs accept each other's licenses...get your license and run a few with each club and decide then

Running with both clubs is expensive, because you still need to be a member of both, not just have a one-license-for-both thing.

I chose NASA over SCCA because I felt their graduated HPDE system was vastly superior to SCCA's non-existent one. I chose NASA because they had some great car classes to choose from, many of which are low cost. I chose NASA because the rule book is smaller and simpler. NASA frowns heavily on on-track contact (at least in my regions) unlike SCCA. And I chose NASA because I've never had trouble getting an answer from someone, and those in charge always seem willing to help.

NASA was a better fit for me. I'm not saying SCCA is no good. I always recommend you spend some weekends in the paddock talking to people (and officials) in both clubs and get a feel for what they are like. Different regions are run differently, and car counts in the various classes also can be wildly different. Do your homework.

i would go to races held by both clubs and see how they're run. i race with the scca and some regions run races better than others.

I've worked with both, and prefer the more laid back atmosphere at NASA events. The fact that I don't need a membership in my region helps me. Never understood that I had to have a membership to volunteer to stand in the heat all day. It's bad enough that I need a membership to fuel for a single enduro every year.

Plus, GRM is the official magazine of NASA. If I didn't have the 10 year subscription, this would certainly be a reason to get a membership.

Still, go to events that both put on and see which fits you better. You're not me (and be thankful for that, one of me is more than enough).

OH....forgot that NASA has a work-to-play program....for every day you volunteer you get credit for a 1/2 day of play time. W/ SCCA you can earn back your membership fee.

The SCCA requires membership to volunteer, largely for insurance and the benifits that competition people get. but yeah, it is rather silly.

Another organization to look at but which is a regional rather then national racing organization is MCSCC. Most members or either from Illinois or Wisconsin but there are members from Minn, Iowa, Indiana, and Michigan. They run mostly SCCA type car classes but also have some unique classes as well as some "run what ya brung" classes. They accept both SCCA & NASA comp. licenses and you don't have to be a member to race or work with them. You do have to join if you want to run for points however. Link follows for more info. http://www.mcscc.org/

As much as I love SCCA, I have to admit that NASA seems to be better at creating classes for the cars most younger folks are actually building. If you had a hot street CIvic, adding a cage & cell would put you in their Honda Series. In SCCA, they'd have a hard time trying to figure out where you'd run.

I have asked the same question of multiple SCCA people...they all say the same thing...SCCA is safer, its more professionally run. I don't necessarily agree, I've been to events run by both and I can't tell the difference in terms of safety as a mere spectator. Again, I'm just repeating what I heard from an SCCA racer and a long-time SCCA corner worker.

Show up at a few events for each. Hang out with folks.

Who do you enjoy hanging out with more? Who's events do you want to go back to? There's your answer.

Before I started w2w racing, I was told: Don't pick your competitors based on what car you'd like to drive, pick what car you'll drive based on who you want to compete alongside.

plance1 wrote: I have asked the same question of multiple SCCA people...they all say the same thing...SCCA is safer, its more professionally run. I don't necessarily agree, I've been to events run by both and I can't tell the difference in terms of safety as a mere spectator. Again, I'm just repeating what I heard from an SCCA racer and a long-time SCCA corner worker.

Okay..here goes! From my experience, SCCA is a "club". A group of like-minded folks that care about this sport, and want to hang with each other for social reasons as well. The fact that our club is so old gives us some good things (like our insurance policies, etc.), and some bad things (politics! I've often joked that if SCCA drivers are playing in our Club ranks because they can't get into ALMS or F1, then SCCA officials are playing in our Club ranks because they can't get elected to the US Congress..)

NASA is a business. Good things: they actually listen to what their "consumers" have to say (regarding their car classes, and their wonderful program to bring people through the HPDE/Time Trial/Racing ladder). Bad things: If you get hurt, well, it's your own damn fault. (NASA guys, I'm not really up to date on your current insurance program..if I'm wrong, please correct me!!) Also, if you've dumped kilodollars into a car that's in a class that's not well suscribed..you're stuck if the class just goes away.

I'm NOT a NASA hater! At the moment, I'm considering building my green Corrado for Time Trials. And I am cursing very loudly about the fact that SCCA is so far behind the curve on sensing that need by enthusiasts.

EDIT: I should have said "our members", instead of "enthusiasts".

First off, I'll say that I've been a member of SCCA since '91.

When NASA came along, I really liked the concept, especially since I was just starting out running Spec Miata at the time. The engine claim rule they had was a real plus to me.

But things like it being more expensive to run for less track time, not even having a SM class in Florida for a LONG time, and running against NASCAR stock cars, Ferrari Challenge cars, and various Corvettes and Porsches that got in my way constantly WITH ME IN A BONE STOCK '90 MIATA at a DED day, were just many of the reasons why I'll never run with them.

But two of the biggest reasons are, I had an instructors license with NASA, and a competition license with SCCA. They wouldn't issue me a NASA competition license.

And a few years back, when their championship was being run at Mid-Ohio, a friend of mine went to run in it. He was probably one of the few cars that had a chance of beating Todd Lamb in Spec Miata. In qualifying, his last two laps were ruined by some 16 year old kid, taking away any chance he had at the pole. When he stopped on pit lane to question the kid, the officials told him to pack up his stuff and go home. Weeks later, they sent him a letter telling him his license was suspended, and he'd have to jump through hoops if he ever wanted to come back. He's got that letter framed on the wall of his shop. Turns out the kid's dad was a high ranking NASA official.

plance1 wrote: I have asked the same question of multiple SCCA people...they all say the same thing...SCCA is safer, its more professionally run.

Well of course the SCCA people will say that. Everyone defends their own club. Just as I'm about to defend NASA.

As I stated earlier, it will vary by region. Some SCCA regions are very well run. Some NASA regions are very well run. Some aren't. You really need to get out there and see how both do what they do in your area to decide. For me personally, I feel far safer racing with NASA than SCCA. I've been very pleased with what I've seen in regards to safety, and assclownery isn't tolerated in the regions I've run with.

If you have a SCCA comp license you can get a NASA license. I don't know what situation the other poster had with that. They won't just issue one though; you'll have to be vetted on track before they will give it to you. SCCA refused to honor NASA comp licenses until just recently. I really believe NASA's license requirements are superior to SCCA's, yet I had no trouble getting mine after acquiring and proving my experience.

NASA has a class for everything. SCCA does not. If you choose to build a car that is essentially running against itself, that's your mistake. NASA has plenty of classes that don't require massive builds as well as very open classes for those who like to engineer. Yes, I've been on track with groups of cars that are way faster in rare occasions, but everyone drives respectfully and smart and it's not been a problem.

I can't speak to the SM favoritism above as I don't know anything about it. But I can tell you in SCCA I was told to 'overlook' a blatantly cheating car placed in a completely wrong class because it was a guy who's "been racing with us for years" and I wouldn't be popular if I made waves. This guy set a course record with his car that nobody is likely to ever match now. SCCA's good old boy network is alive and well, believe me.

I had a NASA INSTRUCTOR'S LICENSE, plus my SCCA competition license. I used to have an IMSA competition license for a while. I was told I would have to go through the Driver Education program. Pretty funny considering I was faster than almost every car in my group four class the one time I did instruct. Maybe all those guys in the Ferrari Challenge cars and NASCAR stock cars didn't like being passed in the corners by a BONE STOCK MIATA! I even had 195/60-14 YKS Tires!

I will NEVER race with NASA, EVER.

That's your choice. I've had nothing but good experiences with NASA.

I too have an instructors license with NASA, but for me to get a comp license with them I'd have to do a certain amount of rookie starts, etc.

I wouldn't have to go through the DE program as I'm an instructor. Not sure why they told you that, as it's blantantly wrong.

racerfink wrote: I had a NASA INSTRUCTOR'S LICENSE, plus my SCCA competition license. I used to have an IMSA competition license for a while. I was told I would have to go through the Driver Education program. Pretty funny considering I was faster than almost every car in my group four class the one time I did instruct. Maybe all those guys in the Ferrari Challenge cars and NASCAR stock cars didn't like being passed in the corners by a BONE STOCK MIATA! I even had 195/60-14 YKS Tires! I will NEVER race with NASA, EVER.

He wanted to be moved to the comp classes so he could run FLAT OUT.

racerfink wrote: I had a NASA INSTRUCTOR'S LICENSE, plus my SCCA competition license. I used to have an IMSA competition license for a while. I was told I would have to go through the Driver Education program. Pretty funny considering I was faster than almost every car in my group four class the one time I did instruct. Maybe all those guys in the Ferrari Challenge cars and NASCAR stock cars didn't like being passed in the corners by a BONE STOCK MIATA! I even had 195/60-14 YKS Tires! I will NEVER race with NASA, EVER.

sorry to bring this back from the dead...but.....if you have a CURRENT SCCA Comp. Licence then you can get a NASA Comp. license and visa versa. IF your comp. license has expireced they will request you go through comp. school again. That really isn't a big deal. It is just mostly to get you reaclimated to door-2-door racing and for them to see that you aren't going to kill anyone.

I run with both, and crew with SCCA , work with both... that said the SCCA tends to lean more towards the nanny state of mind.... way too many people with way to much power (in their own minds) NASA tends to be a bit ... shall we say slacker..?? they expect you to take the time and responsibility for your own car... tech consists of: show me your helmet and do the brake lights work....

as to safety on track they're about as equal as any two sanctioning bodies could be... TT license seems much tougher to get with NASA, don't know about comp license...