We've had a few different discussions about the high barriers to entry for wheel to wheel racing. It's almost like the SCCA is listening! ;) I saw this announcement this morning, sounds like an interesting program. There are a lot of Lemons/Champ type cars out there that should be eligible if I'm reading it right. No licensing requirements other than having a driver's license and an SCCA membership. Sounds to me like an interesting step in the right direction.
What does the scca offer that lemons/chump isn't fulfilling? I can't tell if this is a replacement for it-ez so low buck cars can run in scca events as test and tunes or if there is something more here.
In reply to ojannen :
SCCA probably just learned about lemons this year lol
I'll preface my reply with this: At this point, most of the dorks racing sports cars at the amateur level already read GRM. So my goal is to get more dorks racing via any means possible.
So I'm on the SCCA board for this new program--originally our board's mission was Enduro, but the more we chatted about endurance racing, the more the discussion kept veering into the numerous barriers keeping people from getting on track with the SCCA.
Eventually it morphed into this announcement, and I'm pretty darn excited about the progress we've made in a few years. In theory, you can now go race with the SCCA without a medical exam, without crazy specific car prep, and without an expensive race school. I think that helps further mine (and GRM's) mission.
The SCCA has some old-timers, sure, but I've been pleasantly surprised (at least at the national level) by how much self-awareness there is, and how hard they're working to modernize the club.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
First I will say thank you for volunteering your time on this.
Second "Dear SCCA it's about time"
So many clubs have far less of a barrier than SCCA. Vintage racing simply has you simply do an orientation.
I also see this as a way for Regions to possibly start these programs.
All around it's a good thing.
PS: Tom.................I applaud your shameless ploy to get dorks racing.
So is it a class? When do they run these cars? Regular race weekends, or what? Didn't they try this with ITJ?
No licensing requirements other than having a driver's license and an SCCA membership.
Does this mean zero experience (school, prior races, time trials, etc) before entering a race?
L5wolvesf said:No licensing requirements other than having a driver's license and an SCCA membership.
Does this mean zero experience (school, prior races, time trials, etc) before entering a race?
As far as I can tell, yes. Similar to Lemons etc.
15 years. That's how long ago I started racing in Lemons. I desperately wanted to road race with the SCCA but they weren't interested in new racers unless they came with buckets of money and the willingness to wade through the good old boys club's permissions.
The last club race I attended had somewhere around 50 cars and drivers. My last Lemons race had 110 cars with a minimum of 4 drivers per car.
It's taken 15 years for the SCCA to finally get to the dock for a ship that has long since sailed.
Tom, I sincerely hope you can help drag the SCCA to the forefront of the car hobby instead of languishing at the back of the pack. Good luck. It's a long uphill battle.
Toyman! said:15 years. That's how long ago I started racing in Lemons. I desperately wanted to road race with the SCCA but they weren't interested in new racers unless they came with buckets of money and the willingness to wade through the good old boys club's permissions.
Having gotten my NASA and SCCA licenses a couple years ago I really don't think the process is as hard as a lot of people make it out to be. Realistically it was:
1) get a car that meets safety regs
2) sign up for race school
3) go get a physical and have a doctor sign off on the form
4) show up for race school, pay attention, be respectful, demonstrate that you are happy to play by the rules
5) do a handful of races with a provisional license and don't crash into anyone.
Which of those steps is unreasonable?
In contrast, the one Lemons race I attended was dumpster fire. 250 cars on a track less than 3 miles long. Someone with zero track experience driving a 4000 pound boat panicked at the chicane, locked up his brakes, and wiped out the other car on the team I was driving with. Later that day someone else pointed me by into a corner, then decided to close the door, then came over and threw got verbally aggressive because we made contact. No thanks.
I don't really see how it's complex to get a competition license with either SCCA or NASA but this is cool. Its always good to have more competition and options.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:In contrast, the one Lemons race I attended was dumpster fire. 250 cars on a track less than 3 miles long. Someone with zero track experience driving a 4000 pound boat panicked at the chicane, locked up his brakes, and wiped out the other car on the team I was driving with. Later that day someone else pointed me by into a corner, then decided to close the door, then came over and threw got verbally aggressive because we made contact.
This is why I asked about people with zero racing experience getting a license.
L5wolvesf said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:In contrast, the one Lemons race I attended was dumpster fire. 250 cars on a track less than 3 miles long. Someone with zero track experience driving a 4000 pound boat panicked at the chicane, locked up his brakes, and wiped out the other car on the team I was driving with. Later that day someone else pointed me by into a corner, then decided to close the door, then came over and threw got verbally aggressive because we made contact.
This is why I asked about people with zero racing experience getting a license.
Related, I saw a post from Randy Pobst on IG where he got taken out during a low buck race at Road Atlanta. No idea how experienced the driver who hit him was but just a data point regarding a wreck in that type of racing.
L5wolvesf said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:In contrast, the one Lemons race I attended was dumpster fire. 250 cars on a track less than 3 miles long. Someone with zero track experience driving a 4000 pound boat panicked at the chicane, locked up his brakes, and wiped out the other car on the team I was driving with. Later that day someone else pointed me by into a corner, then decided to close the door, then came over and threw got verbally aggressive because we made contact.
This is why I asked about people with zero racing experience getting a license.
Do you consider a weekend racing school "experience?" Because that is all it takes to get a provisional license.
In reply to dyintorace :
I talked to Randy about that about an hour after it happened. He was driving faster than the entire field in extremely wet conditions and couldn't avoid a spinning car coming out of a blind corner. What is commonly called a racing incident.
He was supposed to climb in our B210 next but decided discretion was a better idea and spent his time trying to help the other guys get their car back on track.
Toyman! said:I talked to Randy about that about an hour after it happened. He was driving faster than the entire field in extremely wet conditions and couldn't avoid a spinning car coming out of a blind corner. What is commonly called a racing incident.
Yeah, that many cars in a downpour there are going to be issues, that one's just bad luck.
Racebrick said:Do you consider a weekend racing school "experience?" Because that is all it takes to get a provisional license.
The school I went to (which was, admittedly, NASA rather than SCCA), the instructors were out in the driving sessions and were observing peoples' driving. One or two students were clearly in over their heads and were encouraged to go do some more HPDE before trying the race school again next year. So at least for that school, while it's true that there were no additional requirements on paper beyond the school itself, the instructors needed to sign off on the students.
One thing that was repeated several times was that the objective of the school was to satisfy the instructors that they would feel safe racing with us.
The carnival atmosphere of LeMons races just turn me off. As unimpressed as I am with SCCA as a whole, I really would like to see them succeed in this.
The idea isn't for zero-experience drivers to get on track and go wheel to wheel. Instead, it's for drivers who have some experience (HPDE, Track Night, TT, Lemons, etc etc) to easily get on track.
This is good to see, although a decade later than it should have been.
Being able to run pretty much anything as long as it meets safety req's is huge, imo.
I've always thought that the SCCA would struggle to offer a compelling alternative in the low buck endurance market, but there was a good opportunity to bring in lemons/champ/etc folks to sprint racing for a "simpler" weekend than organizing 4-5 people on a team and dealing with the mechanical issues that can come along with endurance racing.
Also curious to see if they add these in to existing events. That will definitely get some push back - lots of racers I know are already crabby about lack of track time.
Tom Suddard said:The idea isn't for zero-experience drivers to get on track and go wheel to wheel. Instead, it's for drivers who have some experience (HPDE, Track Night, TT, Lemons, etc etc) to easily get on track.
Where and when is this class supposed to run? Regional races? Track nights? In their own group, or with bspec/prod cars?
sevenracer said:Being able to run pretty much anything as long as it meets safety req's is huge, imo.
My region (SFR) has a regional class called "ITE", for "IT everyone". The rules for the class are simple: 1) must meet general safety regs (cage, etc) 2) must have a VIN 3) must have DOT tires. I know SoCal does the same thing, not sure how common it is across other regions though.
In SFR, ITE dates back to the mid 90s at least.
Racebrick said:L5wolvesf said:codrus (Forum Supporter) said:In contrast, the one Lemons race I attended was dumpster fire. 250 cars on a track less than 3 miles long. Someone with zero track experience driving a 4000 pound boat panicked at the chicane, locked up his brakes, and wiped out the other car on the team I was driving with. Later that day someone else pointed me by into a corner, then decided to close the door, then came over and threw got verbally aggressive because we made contact.
This is why I asked about people with zero racing experience getting a license.
Do you consider a weekend racing school "experience?" Because that is all it takes to get a provisional license.
I consider a weekend racing school where instructors evaluate a driver's ability to race safely experience.
Tom Suddard said:The idea isn't for zero-experience drivers to get on track and go wheel to wheel. Instead, it's for drivers who have some experience (HPDE, Track Night, TT, Lemons, etc etc) to easily get on track.
That is better than zero experience. Are they given a full or provisional license?
So, for this class, what will be required for the car? Full cage? 5 pt seatblets? Hans device, full suit ? On-board fire extinguisher? window glass removed, replaced with plexi?
Any restrictions on what cars can race? High HP cars mixed with low in one class or several classes or just a minimum HP/performance capability?
Restrictions on custom builds?
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