scca solo class bumping (and minor rant about class stupidity)

So for some reason I decided to volunteer to organize the local autocross.

Since we are a small region, we have lots of single cars in classes. So I know they wrote up the bumping order in the rule book.

But of course, the bumping order is insanely poorly written. Like everything in the scca rule book I really think they have to be either stupid, insane, or just deliberately screwing with everyone.

They provide this information for how to bump street classes

HS->GS->ES->DS->CS->BS->AS->SS-> Street Prepared class as appropriate.

what does this mean? I have a single competitor in AS, Nobody in SS. So that means it gets bumped to Street Prepared. But which one? Does "as appropriate" mean it gets bumped into the appropriate street prepared class for that car (in this case it's a 911) so it goes to ASP, or does it go into the lowest of the street prepared (FSP)

one of about 10 billion problems with the rules but it's the one that currently has me stumped. I SWEAR these people that write these are trying to kill this sport.

Have you considered not using class bumping?

All regions I run with throw all cars in 1-car classes (in one region) or 1 or 2 car classes (in another region) into a catch all PAX class to be used for trophy purposes.

He'd run the appropriate Street Prepared class for that car. Basically he'd be underprepared but at least have a place to run.

What year 911 is he running? Depending on the year, he could also put himself in STR, too, I believe. (This is off the top of my head, so please consult the rulebook.)

Also, remember that the SCCA class rules are for SCCA national-run events. I believe there's something in there that clubs are free to modify things to better serve their local participants. If you need/want a class for blue Miatas, for example, go for it.

I might take a crack at a class system. It can't be any worse

Here locally we can have the same problem. We run everyone in their normal scca classes but group certain classes together for trophies. Standings are calculated based on pax times.

icaneat50eggs wrote: Does "as appropriate" mean it gets bumped into the appropriate street prepared class for that car (in this case it's a 911) so it goes to ASP...

You got it on the first try...That wasn't so hard, was it?

.

David S. Wallens wrote: Basically he'd be underprepared but at least have a place to run.

Every club I've run with, indexed the bump classes to mitigate that issue. Your recommendation of running in the applicable ST class instead, if there is one available, is also a good one I've seen used before...Especially when the overgrown gnome in his wife's stock auto trans Cavalier on all-seasons beats up on all of the young'uns in their prepped STS cars.

As others have mentioned - I wouldn't bother with bumping. For the sake of keeping it competitive and fun - I would lump together as many stock classes as needed and PAX them all as a group. Maybe run a "faster stock" SS, AS, BS, CS, DS and then "slower stock" with ES, FS, GS, HS. Hopefully you'd end up with at least a handful of cars out of each group to keep it interesting.

one of the regions with which I run uses a system where the group all the stock (street … in modern SCCA talk) in one class (HS, GS, FS, ES, DS, CS, BS, & AS) together and score them using SCCA PAX scoring … not totally fair, but then nothing in life is

the same for ST ( STF, STC[which is now STS], STS, STX, STU, & STR) again scored using PAX …

same for SP, P, and M

My. 02¢. SCCA has too many classes for AX.

Since bumping in only there to help with trophies- don't give them. Done.

When I was doing a lot of events, I tried to avoid bumping cars beween categories- if there was one SS driver, they were on their own.

All they got for the bumping was a cheap mug, anyway. Most took the offer of a pass instead of a trophy.

My home club had a good points based classing system. Worked pretty well. But it was also for one event a year, and nothing else.

We don't bump, not your fault there's no one else in your class. Our trophies are based on season points and you have to attend a minimum number of events to qualify.

My poor 2.0 liter 914 runs B Stock and always gets bumped to A putting me against 911s and Corvettes. Not particularly upsetting, but once I'd like to see how I do against peers.

crazycanadian wrote: Here locally we can have the same problem. We run everyone in their normal scca classes but group certain classes together for trophies. Standings are calculated based on pax times.

My region also does this. All the Stock classes are grouped together. All Street Touring are grouped together. All modified and prepared classes are grouped together for trophies. I think it's better like this because the casual and moderately competitive regulars have more people to directly compete against, especially the ones in a stock class where there may only be 3 people in one class. Then, hopefully they don't get bored and quit.

In reply to HappyAndy: Part of the reason for a high number of classes is so everyone can run what they got and have a chance to win.

We typically offer the driver the option: stay where he/she is, alone in class and no glassware, or bump up to the next higher class and fight it out. It's about evenly split where they choose to go.

We ran our autocross's for fun

Six classes based mostly on engine size and tires.

No bumping or pax junk.

HappyAndy wrote: My. 02¢. SCCA has too many classes for AX.

everyone says this, and means it … until they're car gets moved to a class where they perceive it to not be competitive … case in point… the move to consolidate STS & STC … the Civic drivers (who have OWNED STC for yrs) are screaming foul … since they think the Miata and the CRX will richard stomp them at the national tour events … even though the PAX between the 2 was on order of a couple of thousands

wbjones wrote: ...and score them using SCCA PAX scoring … not totally fair, but then nothing in life is

What is unfair about this?

Driven5 wrote:

wbjones wrote: ...and score them using SCCA PAX scoring … not totally fair, but then nothing in life is

What is unfair about this?

PAX isn't perfect. But neither is classing. Unless you make every class an individual make/model, it will never be perfect.

We do classing, as well as bump classes if the driver wants to. I ran in ES last year, it was usually just me. This year I'll probably run in our XE class, which has all of the street classes in it. Should be a bit more fun. I don't particularly care if I get a trophy, I'll probably be changing classes in the summer once the Exocet is done anyway.

For any region that gets less than 60 cars normally I'd suggest you do pax classes. So you end up with S, ST, SP, SM, P, and M pax classes. You get more accurate pax battles because pax is most accurate in the same class grouping, and you also dont get that poor non-S mini cooper going against corvettes.

I tried to come up with a "formula" for an "easy class/easy handicap" that looked something like this

Tire Section Width (ex. 225mm) x Compound (0.5-1.0, 0.5 being snow tires, 1.0 being Hoosiers) x (1/weight) x est whp

This gives you numbers like this (keep in mind SM PAX is 0.870 and STS is 0.828)

• STS Miata on R1R's -- 225mm x 0.9 x (1/2200) x 120whp = 11.05
• SM Evo on HoHo's -- 275mm x 1.0 x (1/3100) x 350whp = 31.05

Obviously these numbers are really far apart, so you have to temper in some semblance of a "balance" such as adding a value of 100 to each factor.

This then looks like this

• Miata -- 111.05
• Evo -- 131.05

So you take the fastest car for the event (calculated) and divide it's time by it's "handicap" (this is your reference factor) then just multiply all the other cars handicap x reference factor and you get a PAX time.

Unfortunately without some "tuning" of what ratios to assign to what tire, and what number to temper the balance number to (25-75 would probably work, but you'd have to play with it) you're probably not accurately weighting it.

I've also played with a different weight formula substituting (1/ 10 x weight) and THEN doing a balance factor.

This makes the numbers look like this

• Miata -- 1.105 + 100pt balance = 101.105
• Evo -- 3.105 + 100pt balance = 103.105

Which is much closer to the real "PAX Values" but probably TOO close (STS being 98% as fast as SM vs real pax of 95%)

Might work better with a 40pt "balance?"

• Miata -- 41.105
• Evo -- 43.105

Calculated difference of ~95%.

Thanks for reading all this garbage, but I doubt anyone would really be interested in implementing such a "Spreadsheet Hell" approach to "Easy Classing" in autocross.

Ultimately; sticking to a SCCA set of car classes and just having people that are putting up good times make sure they're classed correctly works better with less pain in the spreadsheet :D

NOW: I want to know where I can get a wireless timing setup for under $1000... for, uh, testing and stuff.

Autolex wrote: NOW: I want to know where I can get a wireless timing setup for under $1000... for, uh, testing and stuff.

farmtek?

Leafy wrote:

Autolex wrote: NOW: I want to know where I can get a wireless timing setup for under $1000... for, uh, testing and stuff.

farmtek?

Looks like $1500 without any way to record it? just the wireless sensors?

I was thinking of homebrewing a kit out of wireless driveway IR beam sensors and an Arduino/E36 M3ty laptop

Autolex wrote:

Leafy wrote:

Autolex wrote: NOW: I want to know where I can get a wireless timing setup for under $1000... for, uh, testing and stuff.

farmtek?

Looks like $1500 without any way to record it? just the wireless sensors? I was thinking of homebrewing a kit out of wireless driveway IR beam sensors and an Arduino/E36 M3ty laptop

Or you could just go wired. I'd rather be wired for a home brew/testing setup and not have to dick around with wireless issues.

Autolex wrote:

Leafy wrote:

Autolex wrote: NOW: I want to know where I can get a wireless timing setup for under $1000... for, uh, testing and stuff.

farmtek?

Looks like $1500 without any way to record it? just the wireless sensors? I was thinking of homebrewing a kit out of wireless driveway IR beam sensors and an Arduino/E36 M3ty laptop

May be easier to use a National Instruments set up- since a lot of that is already pre-programmed- it's a matter of making the interface. That's what my club did, and it works great. The NI hardware had a nice clock inside, and all you do is provide a trigger.