Scheming Assistance- Longitudinal Transmissions for 2GRFE

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

You'd think I would know this by now, but I am pretty sure the transverse GRs have the starter mounted on the transmission, on the transmission side of the flexplate.

Correct.  So what we're looking for, ideally, is a longitudinal transmission with the starter on the bellhousing like that- BRZ and RX8 boxes are both that way, but obviously aren't going to bolt up without an adapter.  I'm not opposed to making an adapter, just ruling out other options in case somebody knows of the weird missing link transmission/bellhousing that would make this all possible.

Ken Gushi has a crazy 1000hp twin-turbo 2GR in his Formula Drift GR86, but I'm pretty sure that he's running an uber-expensive sequential gearbox.

Are you wanting to mount this in the BRZ?

In reply to MrJoshua :

A different BRZ, but yes.  Tunnel/firewall modifications are an option.

I am currently sitting in an AWD GS350, so there goes that idea.

When I am done doing what he brought it here for, I'll look underneath and see where Toyota put the starter.

edit: Starter is in the valley here, too.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

I have seen a guy on youtube 'modifying' his block a bit to fit the starter on the block itself. 
It's a bit sketchy but it worked. He also made a vid about how to make up a engine adaptor plate (also quite sketchy but at least it bolts up and that could then be made up properly by a machine shop.)

https://youtube.com/@scantronsgarage

Hope this will help. 

Scantrons Garage built those pieces for me. I aided in the research of making everything work.

I stumbled upon this forum while looking for anything related to a longitudinal 2GR-FE. 

I made an account to share the knowledge. Let me know if y'all have any questions. 

ZoeBouyon said:

Scantrons Garage built those pieces for me. I aided in the research of making everything work.

 

I stumbled upon this forum while looking for anything related to a longitudinal 2GR-FE. 

 

I made an account to share the knowledge. Let me know if y'all have any questions. 

Give an info dump!  Sometimes people don't even know what questions need to be asked until more information is out there.

 - Another Interested Party

The longitudinal GR blocks have a different bell housing bolt pattern than the transverse GR.  Not easily swapped.  The 1GR (4.0) truck crankshaft with a longer stroke will not fit the 2GR (3.5) transverse block.  That said, the stock 2GR is pretty strong and very reliable.  More aftermarket parts are popping up every day for it.  

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

ZoeBouyon said:

Scantrons Garage built those pieces for me. I aided in the research of making everything work.

 

I stumbled upon this forum while looking for anything related to a longitudinal 2GR-FE. 

 

I made an account to share the knowledge. Let me know if y'all have any questions. 

Give an info dump!  Sometimes people don't even know what questions need to be asked until more information is out there.

 - Another Interested Party

The 2GR-FE shares a similar bolt pattern to the older Toyota SUV/truck V6s that were mated to a manual transmission. We used a factory Toyota part, engine to transmission intermediate plate, to know where to clearance the 2GR-FE block to accept the Toyota SUV/truck starter.

We did this for my longitudinal 2GR-FE MR2 Spyder project. There was more that was needed to be done to make my setup work. For example, a welded adapter plate to the the 2GR-FEto the Porsche transmission, a machined Toyota flywheel to accept the Porsche clutch, etc.

Lookup Scantrons Garage on YouTube, it will give you a better idea of what I am referring to.

Let me know if y'all have any questions.

I guess this is worth an update from my end- I do have a 2GRFE sitting on solid mockup mounts in my spare BRZ shell now:

This is using the stock fwd pan- an IS250 pan would bolt to this engine, but would also set the engine well back into the firewall.  I have also drawn up an adapter to mate it to a BRZ transmission:

However, given that we just destroyed a second transmission in the rally BRZ, I need to determine if I can strengthen whatever weak point keeps killing these gearboxes on me, or if I need a different transmission entirely.

That trans would be the AZ6/J160, right? People are putting decent power through them in other platforms. Or is it rally specifically that's breaking them?

In reply to buzzboy :

Not sure yet, I'll disassemble both broken ones and investigate this winter- the rally car has a stock FA20 so it's certainly not power or torque.  For the time being I just stuck another used transmission in since we have an event next week.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

I guess this is worth an update from my end- I do have a 2GRFE sitting on solid mockup mounts in my spare BRZ shell now:

This is using the stock fwd pan- an IS250 pan would bolt to this engine, but would also set the engine well back into the firewall.  I have also drawn up an adapter to mate it to a BRZ transmission:

However, given that we just destroyed a second transmission in the rally BRZ, I need to determine if I can strengthen whatever weak point keeps killing these gearboxes on me, or if I need a different transmission entirely.

Can you provide pictures of your driver's side motor mount?

Which bolting provisions did you decide to use on that side of the 2GR-FE? 

Who is making your adapter plate, flywheel, clutch, etc? 

In reply to ZoeBouyon :

The adapter is drawn up for a BRZ clutch and BRZ flywheel redrilled for (or manufactured with) a 2GR crank pattern.  I did the scanning and CAD work and will order parts if I decide the BRZ transmission is a reasonable choice, this is a slow burn project for me and not urgent in any way at the moment.

The motor mounts are solid and just for clearance checks at this point- just some sheet metal with tabs welded together.  The driver's side mounting pad on the subframe did have to be clearanced slightly for the oil pan, but nothing structural.

DS:

PS:

Given that rally seems particularly hard on transmissions, would it make sense to spend extra money up front and get an aftermarket transmission that will survive? I don't know exactly what would be best though. Something like a TKX maybe? You certainly don't need a TR6060 or whatever. 

In reply to singleslammer :

Possibly, but if I can find the weakpoint in the BRZ transmission and address it by welding a circlip in place or something, the $200 used price tag and perfectly good ratios are appealing.  CD009 is also adaptable (admittedly with greater effort) and reasonably priced used.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

I used the same bolting provisions. I have spoken to a few people that integrate the A/C compressor bolts or one of the cradle bolts into their driver's side mount. 

Where are you located? I am in Florida.

CD009 is a long boi tho; Nissan wasn't too worried about length on those, for good reason.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

This is using the stock fwd pan- an IS250 pan would bolt to this engine, but would also set the engine well back into the firewall.  I have also drawn up an adapter to mate it to a BRZ transmission:

I like this idea from a "evacuate heat from the radiators" perspective.  maybe it's because the core support isn't there, and that's throwing off my perspective, but that looks further forward than I'd expect based on clearance I've seen from K24 swaps.

Is this correct ?

a starter that is  in the "valley" of an engine will turn the opposite direction to a starter that sits on the transmission.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

The front of the engine sits about where the FA20 does, but it's MUCH taller so visually it looks very forward.  I like the idea of setting it further back too, although I don't love the extra work, reduced serviceability, or expensive pedal box it would necessitate.  The bottom of the radiator sits in those forwardmost round bosses, for reference.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Where are you located? I am in Florida.

What is your plan for the intake?

In reply to ZoeBouyon :

Pennsylvania, about an hour north of Philadelphia.

Intake is going to need to be something fabricated, or use the stock stuff and run the piping through the rain tray.  Originally I wanted to just flip the upper portion to face the other way, but there are a bunch of things that don't quite line up.

the good news, from my view, is there's a lot of space on the passenger side to evacuate radiator flow out to the back corner of the hood where there should be an "ok" low pressure zone to help pull it out.

looks like the driver's side might be a little harder, with the brake lines/booster over there.  might be a good way to try and split the radiator biased to the pax side, and a narrower vertical trans cooler on the driver's side; with a slot between them to draw in intake air?

"if you're so inclined"

hackneyed buffalo digital napkin sketch attached