school, engineering, and life questions

As you can see from the incredible range of opinions here, the engineering profession cannot be summed up in one post, or even one thread. We can't tell you whether you'll like it or not because, like all jobs, it all depends on the job you get, the boss you get, the coworkers you get, etc. And despite having very much the same interests and personalities, one of my friends loves designing transmissions while another hated it and is now an engineer working on seats and absolutely loves it, so it also just comes down to the individual person.

You said you don't like doing paperwork, can you do it if you have to or is spending an hour a day documenting things going to be a problem (that's at a minimum, chances are you'll spend a lot more time doing it)? Documenting what you've done is a very big part of any engineers job, whether you're doing design, testing, prototyping, field services, etc. Documenting can include creating drawings, designing tests, documenting test results, creating failure reports, etc. This brings up another though: will you even be able to sit through classes? Classes will be 2 hours at least, and many will be 3. If you get two or three classes in a day and then have to go home and do homework or read a chapter for another class, will you be able to do that? That's something you should realistically think about. Maybe you can sit in on some classes at a nearby university to see what you think, or talk to some professors.

If you want to stay in California, there are a lot of automakers and suppliers with engineering centers there. Toyota is based just outside of LA, just down the road from Honeywell/Garrett Turbochargers' headquarters, I've got a friend working at Fisker, Tesla is in LA I think. There are a lot of racing and aftermarket companies there too. You might want to try contacting HR reps from the different companies you might be interested in working for and seeing if you can talk to some of their engineers, or maybe shadow them for a day or two.

I'd say it wouldn't hurt you to get an engineering degree, but do you really want to do it or are you 'settling' on engineering because you have decided you need to be a professional? It would suck to get a year or two in and figure out that while you really have a passion for cars, you don't give a crap about calculating the pressure drop through an orifice, or calculating how long it takes a 1cm aluminum sphere to drop from 50 degrees C to 20C when suspended in a tank of 5C water.

If your dream job is to work at a company designing electric racing bikes and you have a friend who just happens to work at a company that does that, why not talk to him and see if he can get you in there? Maybe you can work there and get an associates or bachelors degree part time.

I guess what I'm saying is, get as much info as you can before committing so that you can be sure it is what you really want to do, and not another culinary school. Asking here was a great idea, but get opinions from other sources too.

Bob

Like many things in life, engineering is what you make of it. I really enjoy engineering as a profession, but make no mistake that it IS still a job. I've worked in jobs that the outsider would consider very, very cool, and they are, but they're still very challenging. The reason they pay me to show up and do my job is because it's a difficult task...if it was all fun and games, I'd pay admission like I was going to a baseball game or a movie theater. I've been working hard for most of my life and playing hard for my entire life, that's the one biggest thing I say to anybody considering a more enjoyable profession/employer...don't forget, they pay you to show up because it's hard work. If the job is super fun, super easy, and pays great, expect a hell of a lot of competition trying to get your job and don't expect it to last long!

Having German and English skills is a huge asset, being a hard worker is another one, and being a good learner is as well. You shouldn't have any trouble finding work in the engineering field...heck, those skills would take you a long way if you worked at my company.

Bryce

Get a BS in mechanical engineering, and then get an MBA. You will pretty much always answer to someone with an MBA.

A quick clarification:

I suggested an engineering degree as a first step. I didn't necessarily mean it as a career working for a large company.

I also suggested working on continuing your education, but I didn't mean advanced degrees in engineering. Business, trade schools, etc. are great for developing opportunities.

The degree gets you in the door, and qualifies you for positions you can't do without it. The other stuff is when the fun begins.

The crazy company I mentioned works on any development or prototype project that comes along. One day they are building turbines, the next they are working on alternative energy projects. The owner was a crackpot inventor who loved crazy stuff. One day he decided he didn't want to be the owner anymore, so he gave it to the employees (who now own and run it). The crackpot is now just an employee. Kind of the best of both worlds- they have the "boring" education, the "thrill" of entreprenuership, and the creativity of a small company where everyone is owner, engineer, fabricator, and machinist.

The engineering world is full of many different types of jobs.

Schmidlap wrote: you don't give a crap about calculating the pressure drop through an orifice, or calculating how long it takes a 1cm aluminum sphere to drop from 50 degrees C to 20C when suspended in a tank of 5C water.

An engineer's education summed up in one sentence. Congratulations on winning the internetz!

Hey,

Lotsa good advice here...

My perspective: I am a Mech Engr. and I have a PE license.

It sounds like your family obligations are minimal. (No mention of a wife, mortgage, etc.)

My (FREE) advice: Do an internet search for all the automotive racing or performance shops in the Bay area or CA. (DO NOT exclude the oval trackers or drag racers.) After you have done that, figure out which ones seem the most interesting and pick 4 or 5 to contact directly. Phone the shop and try to set up a direct discussion/interview, and go visit. Offer them a 6 or 8 week no pay internship.

You may want to pursue the formal engineering degree, but if you have the direct knowledge of working around engineers in a race shop environment you may change your mind.. There are plenty of interesting good jobs out there that do not need or require an engineering degree. (Fabricator, development technician, lead mechanic, etc.)

BTW: spell check will catch most of the errors in your first post. Make a point of using it.

Good Luck!

Rog

Sounds like you want to work for MotoCYSZ from the suggestions in your first post. I would call them up, see what they have available job-wise, and ask what credentials you need to have to get a job there. But be warned, the rate of attrition at companies like that is high, because investors aren't always lined up, and sometimes paychecks aren't always 100% assured.

I wanted to mention something about being a racing engineer.

They are unique. Not neccessarily in their smarts (some are brilliant, some are not so much- just like any industry), but in their gumption. It takes a certain kind of person who spends so much time on the road, rarely takes a break, never sees any of the cool places they visit, ect ect.

Similar things can be said of engineers who like to work in plants. It can be crazy.

Some people thrive on that kind of stuff. Some would rather sit at a desk and really think about the results of a test before making a change.

The kind of work that is done by engineers is incredible.

And, AFAIK, there's a shortage of engineers. just got to find the right jobs.

Gather your tools, learn how to weld on a professional level and open a weld/repair shop. (If you're as mechanically inclined as you say you are.)

Something different everyday, you'll use your noodle, and you can design stuff when nothing is walking in the door.

A bunch of GE engineers walk in my door, and I weld stuff for them or "consult" on whatever it is they're working on. (Union Maint. guys are sleeping apparently, because they have more stuff over there than I do.)

I have products I design and build (and sell)... small volume is fine with me, but I turn away a bunch of repair work now because of it.

I also do some artsy stuff, or did, when I wasn't as busy.

Your German accent will lend an air of quality and precision.

Good luck in whatever you do.

-James

Thanks so much guys! I read every single word of every post and it was all VERY helpful! All of you guys have made it a lot easier for me to know what to start looking for. I will start looking for people in these fields to talk to about what they do and what is involved in getting to where they are. I need to gather as much info and do my research. That is one of the resins I started this thread I think I do need to do something more along the lines of a fabricator or welder. I have been thinking things threw a lot more sins I wrote the first post. I have always been more of a blue color guy. Sitting threw long classes is very hard for me, and it is even harder for me to then go home and do more of the same work on top of the classes. Maybe going to school for another 5 years is not the best idea for me. It is funny hearing all you guys talk about the jobs you do, how fun/not fun they are, and how much they pay. You really can have so many different experiences doing the same thing. It is the same thing in the cooking world. I have had jobs cooking in large kitchens where you are managed by people who know less about cooking then you do, and you just crank out the same thing every day and do not get payed much ether. I have also had jobs in small kitchens where you have room to be creative and learn, have a chef who teaches you things, and make good money on top of it all. In the cooking world you also spend your whole life learning and adapting to the times. You work your ass off for people who have no idea AT ALL how much work is involved in what you do, get payed almost nothing, and work from 1pm-2am. Spending your day creating and slaving over a plate that is comprised of components that each took hours if not days to put together, and then having the server bring it back and dump it in the garbage is hart braking. How ever there is also plenty of satisfaction and happiness that I have found in slaving over hot fires. I do not feel I have wasted any time at all learning the skills I have learned. I have plenty of skills to fall back on and will always be able to find a job doing one of them. Not only have I learned money making skills doing all the things I have done, but I have learned so much about life, my self, and how other people tick.
I think I would be happy being the guy who gets the blue prints from people like you and then makes it all come to fruition. I think I will start looking around at tech/trade schools and see what they have to offer. I will start talking to more people I know as well. My best friends dad was the head of Porsche California for a while. I think I will have a good conversation with him as well. Thanks again for all the help guys!!!!! It was all great, and really helped get my wheels rolling!

Please re-read my posts.

I am a lot like you, 25 years in the future. Also prefer to do the blue collar work.

Nothing would have stopped me from doing exactly the same thing if I had an engineering degree. NOT having it has stopped me from doing a lot of things.

I know school and the desk job aren't your thing. I completely understand. But the degree has value whether or not you pursue a job in the field.

For example... I've spent most of my life building complicated structures. I always have a hard time dealing with building inspectors because I color outside of the lines- most of my jobs don't fit the routine of the codes, and I incorporate a lot of creative problem solving. They hate it, don't understand it, and make my life miserable. Their consistent response is always, "Get an engineer's stamp on it". I usually tell the engineer what to draw, he rubber stamps it, and I pay him and move on.

Sure would have been easier if I had the degree. It would have given a great deal of validity to my business, and opened opportunities for more work.

SVreX wrote: Please re-read my posts. I am a lot like you, 25 years in the future. Also prefer to do the blue collar work. Nothing would have stopped me from doing exactly the same thing if I had an engineering degree. NOT having it has stopped me from doing a lot of things. I know school and the desk job aren't your thing. I completely understand. But the degree has value whether or not you pursue a job in the field. For example... I've spent most of my life building complicated structures. I always have a hard time dealing with building inspectors because I color outside of the lines- most of my jobs don't fit the routine of the codes, and I incorporate a lot of creative problem solving. They hate it, don't understand it, and make my life miserable. Their consistent response is always, "Get an engineer's stamp on it". I usually tell the engineer what to draw, he rubber stamps it, and I pay him and move on. Sure would have been easier if I had the degree. It would have given a great deal of validity to my business, and opened opportunities for more work.

Thanks fro that! I am not saying "no" to an engineering degree of some kind yet. I just need to do more research first. Affordability is also a huge issue for me, and I can not see my self $50,000 in debt. I have a hard enough time sleeping with $1000 on my Visa lol. I need to give it a good look!

I have an ME undergrad. Spent two years in the Coast Guard as a shipboard engineer and then went to flight school.

Flight school was the best move of my life. Get a job that will give you good stories. Having the degree to fall back on is good, but I couldn't imagine being an engineer.

You're not 24!

As you can see from all the above, engineers and technical people love to talk about engineering. That's a good sign!

I'm a college professor teaching in a community college.

I do NOT teach Mechanical Engineering

I teach Mechanical Engineering Technology

You might want to consider MET as apposed ME. The differences between the two programs are significant (we have both at my school): some students prefer ME and some prefer MET. To oversimplify, the MET program is more "hands on" with an increased level of lab classes and less theoretical classes. We tend to offer more applied training in areas like 3D printing, CNC programming, CAD, etc. Typically, my guys do not go beyond Applied Calculus in terms of math. Sometimes, a student who has "hopped around" between different college majors will tell me "THIS is what I've been looking for!". As stated, salaries can be moderate, but we seem to have a decent number of entry level jobs for MET (at least in my area). Students have had no problem getting co-op jobs and there's seems to be even more openings lately.

My students get an AAS in MET and most transfer to a 4-year school for a BS-MET. There are about 100 US schools that offer a Bachelors degree in MET including Purdue, Penn State and NJIT.

I agree about getting involved on any extra tech activities such as SAE (we have an SAE and IEEE chapter).

Go to ~this link~ to see some MET programs in your area. Programs that are "ABET accredited" are usually better.

G'luck!

I have to agree with aero. I have a BSMET from Purdue and couldn't be happier with the choice. I worked in Champ Car doing data acquisition for the 2006 season as an intern and then went to work as a test engineer.

I felt like I was paid a good wage when I left school. The people who complain about the work might be in the wrong field. Every job is going to have moments where you sit behind a desk.

deutschman,

Go back and read your posts. Look at the passion you put into your description of cooking. If that isn't what you love to do, I'll eat my hat (safe to say that, since I don't wear one).

So follow your passion. If you love creating dishes as you say, and love slaving over hot fires, go do what you love!

Some places are the pits, some are great. Find a great one, leave the lousy ones. There are places that pay well for good chefs. They aren't common, but they do exist.

Feeling really passionate about cooking? I mean really passionate? Open up your own place. Most fail fast, but some make it great.

And remember, even working as a short order cook at Denny can be rewarding, if you chose to make it so. Making those grand slam omlets superbly, and coming out to interact with the customers and get the acolades from them on your superb omlets can be a ball. Can you tell I've a friend who does just this? Is he rich? No. Does he have a great time at his job? Yes. People check on his work schedule because they want his hashbrowns and such. It's a love love thing, and he eats it up.

Not sure where you are vis-a-vis the math thing. As I mentioned earlier, Calculus really is the 9/16" (or 17mm) wrench of the engineering world.

Why not go take a single accelerated course in calculus and see how it works out for you? If it is intuitive, then I am going to guess that you will be one of "those guys" that I hated so much; able to party, work part time and still breeze through the courses.

Somewhat like yourself, my arrival at the gates of engineering was a little less traditional. After finishing a Bachelor of Arts in English and Spanish literature, I was feeling much like you and took the plunge. With no real love or background in math, Electrical Engineering was not a cakewalk, but I persevered and have done OK over the years. The ability to travel and write is an appreciated skill-set once you graduate.

HiTempguy wrote:

Schmidlap wrote: you don't give a crap about calculating the pressure drop through an orifice, or calculating how long it takes a 1cm aluminum sphere to drop from 50 degrees C to 20C when suspended in a tank of 5C water.

An engineer's education summed up in one sentence. Congratulations on winning the internetz!

Wow, I never thought someone would say my 50000 word post summed something up. :)

Seriously though, I should have mentioned that if you understand the stuff that a lot of people consider boring (like calculating the pressure drop through an orifice) suddenly you have the ability to look at a cylinder head or an intake manifold and figure out where the flow restrictions are and how to eliminate them, or how to eliminate the hot spots in a combustion chamber to prevent detonation.

I've an ABET-accredited EET degree much like the MET discussed above but on the electrical engineering side of the fence. I would recommend not going this route; I have had difficulties dealing with a job market & HR groups that do not understand the degree I have and seem to believe it is an associate's degree or similar. Which are fine degrees but that's not what this is.

Trying to convince an HR rep of a company that you're worth talking to when your degree isn't what they're expecting can be, in my experience, an exercise in frustration. My advice is to either go full EE or ME, etc, or else get an associates and work on trade specific certifications while working up in a company gaining experience. It's a long story story why I didn't go that route.

You can always get a "full engineering degree" and work down to a level that requires less formal education. It is much harder to go the other way. My experiences may be different from a mechanical engineer's.

I'm not an engineer, but my metal fabrication/HVAC business comes into contact with them all the time. I think that engineering falls into that category of professions where for it to be bearable it must be a calling, not just a job. Otherwise it's simply not worth all the hard work. There are plenty of opportunities for engineers that require hands-on, and there's a lot of engineers who suck at hands-on, so if you can handle the necessary educational requirements, you should be able to play to your strengths/interests.

Here's what may sound like a weird observation, but as someone who's spent 40 of his 48 years in the bay area, it comes from experience: There's so much cool stuff to do there that it's diletante central. For a guy like you, it'd be real easy (and fun) to spend the next 20 years cooking, building burning-man sculptures, working in motorcycle repair shops, crewing Transpac race boats, learning Japanese woodworking, et cetera. This stuff is great, but you may also end up wondering what you could have achieved if you'd been more focused. So do what you think is right, but maintain focus.

kreb wrote: building burning-man sculptures

Whoop whoop, whoop whoop, hippy alert, I repeat, hippy alert

HiTempguy wrote:

kreb wrote: building burning-man sculptures

Whoop whoop, whoop whoop, hippy alert, I repeat, hippy alert

Not really. They're more the steam punk set:

Wow, this has been an interesting read.

I guess the only other thing I would say is that God gives us all talents and desires for a reason.

Go do the stuff you do really well, enjoy it, and give glory to Him....

I got my BSME about 10 years ago (did it in 4 years while working full time). I have since worked for a plastics company, a fermentaion facility, and now a steel company. I was either a maintenance supervisor or project engineer the entire time.

Work is challenging and can have strange hours (maintenance) but you DO get to get your hands dirty! Also, when something breaks you get to do some reverse engineering AND some design work. (Alot of machine components are either un-available, obsolete, or poorly made.)

Now I am a "Senior Development Engineer" What this means is that I develop process path ways for new materials that we want to make. This is challenging AND frustrating. Basically I try to make machines do things that they were never intended to do. LOTS OF DESIGN WORK! Then I get to get my hands dirty to actually implement the plan.

I would recommend getting into a maintenance postion in order to "learn" the machines. You get to do alot of problem solving and get your hands dirty.

Rob R.