Scion FR-S prices

LOL @ New vs. Used comparisons again.

Logic. You don't has it.

bravenrace wrote:

Chris_V wrote:

rotard wrote: I've said it before, the Frisbee would be a great car for $20k. Even then, it has way too much competition, price-wise, for me to ever consider purchasing it.

really? As I asked before, what other new, RWD, lightwieght sports cars are in that price range?

If you restrict the parameters to features that only the toyobaru has, then obviously there isn't going to be many. But vehicles that come close, and that I have already mentioned are the MX-5, Mustang V-6, Genesis Coupe. But when comparing cars based on price, I wouldn't restrict myself to RWD, for one. And when looking at it that way, there are many choices. The new Focus ST comes to mind, at a lower MSRP base price, more power and better fuel economy. I personally would buy a V-6 Mustang long before considering the Toyobaru. That's because for what I would want it for, it would much better suite my needs and wants, and as a result for me it is also a much better value. This is why these discussions will never come to any kind of consensus - We all see things differently. So why don't we talk about what we like in a car and what makes it worth what we are willing to pay for it, and why? Everyone will be different, and that's just great with me, since if we all thought alike, there'd be no reason to make more than one type of car. To be honest, I haven't bought many new cars, and most the ones I have were for my wife. This is sometimes because at the time I couldn't afford what I wanted new, but usually because I tend to get bored with them and then end up selling them at a loss. I'd rather buy used and lose less, if anything, when I decide to move on to something else.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: LOL @ New vs. Used comparisons again. Logic. You don't has it.

yah man. Hear hear.

In reply to bravenrace:

If I resterict the competition to new sports cars, which the car is, then yes, that's the point. How many new lightweight RWD sports cars are out there, at it's price point? The MX5. And? Not the Genesis, 370Z or V6 Mustang, as they are both heavy GTs. The kind of bloated pigs that sports car enthusiasts have been complaining about for at least a decade.

The point is, enthusiasts have been asking for a lighter weight RWD non economy car for over a decade, and now that Toyota delivers it, all you can do is complain that it's priced more than basic economy cars and used cars. If you can't see how stupid that is on an enthusiast board, then i can't help you see it.

But it's the reason no one else MAKES true enthusiast cars anymore. All you guys do is bitch about them when they do finally arrive.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: LOL @ New vs. Used comparisons again. Logic. You don't has it.

LOL @ claiming it's logical to buy a Frisbee instead of a C6. Oh noez, the Frisbee has rear seats that are suitable for torturing small children and carrying a small number of groceries.

Logic. You don't has it.

In all seriousness, how is it not logical to want to get the most car for you, for your money? It's not. You guys trying to say that it's not fair to compare it to used cars are simply being silly. We get it, you love it. Other people don't. Don't get so upset when other people state that it's not right for them for xxx reason.

rotard wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: LOL @ New vs. Used comparisons again. Logic. You don't has it.

LOL @ claiming it's logical to buy a Frisbee instead of a C6. Oh noez, the Frisbee has rear seats that are suitable for torturing small children and carrying a small number of groceries. Logic. You don't has it.

Yeah well... for even less money i could buy a C5 and end up dusting the C6!

So....

LOL @ claiming it's logical to buy a C6 instead of a C5.

See where i'm going here?

This is the car that everyone wanted a company to offer. It's brand new. Now people hate it because it doesn't come used from factory. Give me a friggin' break. It's a discussion about a new car, it makes sense to keep it about new cars. Anything else, and it starts dissolving into a slippery slope and the only logical answers become the GRM Holy Trinity anyways. (Which, you could purchase all three of them for less than a Toyobaru or C6 anyways, so berkeley those two cars.)

It is logical to get the most car for your money. Sooo... this being a discussion about a new car, and it's new car competitors apparently, which new car gives you the most car for your money?

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Exactly plus I mean look at the Bug that ran at the Challenge. I think that could eat a C6 so we should all build one of those because it only cost a tenth of those other cars.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

rotard wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: LOL @ New vs. Used comparisons again. Logic. You don't has it.

LOL @ claiming it's logical to buy a Frisbee instead of a C6. Oh noez, the Frisbee has rear seats that are suitable for torturing small children and carrying a small number of groceries. Logic. You don't has it.

Yeah well... for even less money i could buy a C5 and end up dusting the C6! So.... LOL @ claiming it's logical to buy a C6 instead of a C5. See where i'm going here? This is the car that everyone wanted a company to offer. It's brand new. Now people hate it because it doesn't come used from factory. Give me a friggin' break. It's a discussion about a new car, it makes sense to keep it about new cars. Anything else, and it starts dissolving into a slippery slope and the only logical answers become the GRM Holy Trinity anyways. (Which, you could purchase all three of them for less than a Toyobaru or C6 anyways, so berkeley those two cars.) It is logical to get the most car for your money. Sooo... this being a discussion about a new car, and it's new car competitors apparently, which new car gives you the most car for your money?

Not everyone is going to compare it to new cars. That's like saying, "I want you to compare this car to its competition, but we want you to ignore this one very viable category."

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Exactly plus I mean look at the Bug that ran at the Challenge. I think that could eat a C6 so we should all build one of those because it only cost a tenth of those other cars.

Or, you could become a cosmonaut and go even faster on reentry.

Lol.

Carry on.

May want to re-read the specific question that was asked that spurred this particular argument, though.

Specifically, this one:

Chris_V wrote:

rotard wrote: I've said it before, the Frisbee would be a great car for $20k. Even then, it has way too much competition, price-wise, for me to ever consider purchasing it.

really? As I asked before, what other new, RWD, lightwieght sports cars are in that price range?

I understand now, it's only fair to compare the Frisbee to other, brand new, rear wheel drive coupes that weigh less than 2900lbs and cost $26k. Got it. It must be awesome for that car to be the king of the hill in that category.

If I were shopping for only new cars, I would buy a V6 Mustang or Miata before I ever considered the FRS. Evidently neither car should be compared because one is too heavy and the other isn't a 2+2.

rotard wrote: I understand now, it's only fair to compare the Frisbee to other, brand new, rear wheel drive coupes that weigh less than 2900lbs and cost $26k. Got it. It must be awesome for that car to be the king of the hill in that category.

Remove the lightweight portion... in this day and age, anything under 4500lbs is considered "lightweight" anyways.

rotard wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Exactly plus I mean look at the Bug that ran at the Challenge. I think that could eat a C6 so we should all build one of those because it only cost a tenth of those other cars.

Or, you could become a cosmonaut and go even faster on reentry.

But that isn't cheaper.

93EXCivic wrote:

rotard wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Exactly plus I mean look at the Bug that ran at the Challenge. I think that could eat a C6 so we should all build one of those because it only cost a tenth of those other cars.

Or, you could become a cosmonaut and go even faster on reentry.

But that isn't cheaper.

Definitely isn't cheap, but there probably isn't a cheaper way to go that fast.

rotard wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

rotard wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Exactly plus I mean look at the Bug that ran at the Challenge. I think that could eat a C6 so we should all build one of those because it only cost a tenth of those other cars.

Or, you could become a cosmonaut and go even faster on reentry.

But that isn't cheaper.

Definitely isn't cheap, but there probably isn't a cheaper way to go that fast.

Well if "going as fast as you can for as cheap as you can" is what the discussion is now about, and it sounds that way, then clearly that's the answer!

This is why i don't buy new cars. Because the cheapest way to go faster than what i've already got is probably at least $70k. I appreciate the idea, though. I'm going to start saving and studying so i can become a part of the Russian Space Program.

It is "full retarded" to compare new car pricing to used car pricing. Even I know that and I haven't bought a new car in over 15 years. Yes, used cars are cheaper, and yes, I would buy a used car long before buying a new FR-S, but that doesn't mean the FR-S is too expensive since it's more than a used car.

Also, you can not buy a nice C6 for $25,000. You can buy a well worn auto 2005 for that much but I've never seen a really nice 6-speed manual C6 for $25k. Perhaps with 100k miles and maybe with a salvage title. Hopefully they come around when the C7 finally hits the market.

Chris_V wrote: Dumbass.

Was that really necessary? I know I know... its blasphemy to not fawn all over the FRSBRZABC123. I know I know, what was I thinking that a small rwd underpowered car should be getting better than 30mpg. I know I know... I'm a terrible person because I dont think they are very attractive.

I'll take a Gen Coupe R-spec 2.0T with a lot more power, and a lot more power to be had for the same money. Plus, it doesn't look like it's been lifted with tiny tires.

dculberson wrote: "full retarded"

Cool story, bro.

Chris_V wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Who said anything about new?

I did. I asked what its ACTUAL competition is NEW. WHO ELSE IS MAKING A CAR LIKE IT?????????????????? Listen, bob, OF COURSE used cars will be better berkeleying values than new cars. But NEW car manufacturers cannot build new cars at used car berkeleying prices. BREAKING NEWS! ATTENTION NEW CAR MANUFACTURERS!!! STOP MAKING NEW CARS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T COMPETE ON PRICE WITH USED CARS! Dumbass.

You are yelling at a 12 year old. The inability to read and respond to a topic does not typically get resolved until high school graduation. This has to be the case, or why else would he answer with a used car answer to a new car question?

Save your breath to cool your soup.

(Trying to sway the topic back to the original question...)

I would think that most new car purchasers would at least compare the Frisbee to a CPO type used car, so say 2-4 years old only. That lops out any cheap Corvette's, 944's, and everything else "used" that can out-do it in everything or is comparable on specs.

Looking at just the CPO market, you're looking at still pretty much just the Miata, and maybe an S2000 still kicking around at size/weight. Obviously both of those are only 2-seater convertibles, so the Frisbee still looks great. I honestly think the only realistic CPO cars would be a Genesis Coupe. I haven't driven a Frisbee yet, but it is much smaller than the GC, and honestly the new GC (especially the 2.0T) is so much more improved that that type of buyer would likely be cross-shopping new anyway.

I did read that Nissan is downsizing the 2014 Z to meet the Frisbee though. Wouldn't it be great if Hyundai did the same on the GC? Good times ahead, I think.

Javelin wrote: I did read that Nissan is downsizing the 2014 Z to meet the Frisbee though. Wouldn't it be great if Hyundai did the same on the GC? Good times ahead, I think.

As enthusiasts, that's what we need, this thing to be enough of a success that other companies try to match it. Then all those that only buy used will have a HUGE slection of lightweight RWD sports cars in a few years.

Chris_V wrote: In reply to bravenrace: If I resterict the competition to new sports cars, which the car is, then yes, that's the point. How many new lightweight RWD sports cars are out there, at it's price point? The MX5. And? Not the Genesis, 370Z or V6 Mustang, as they are both heavy GTs. The kind of bloated pigs that sports car enthusiasts have been complaining about for at least a decade. The point is, enthusiasts have been asking for a lighter weight RWD non economy car for over a decade, and now that Toyota delivers it, all you can do is complain that it's priced more than basic economy cars and used cars. If you can't see how stupid that is on an enthusiast board, then i can't help you see it. But it's the reason no one else MAKES true enthusiast cars anymore. All you guys do is bitch about them when they do finally arrive.

But yet you own a "bloated pig" and not a Frisbee. Why is it so hard for you to understand that not everyone wants the same thing in a car as you? You can't help me see it? See what? Your point of view on a car that maybe fits your needs instead of mine? Give me a break. Did you buy one yet? Why not? Are you going to sell your pig of a Mustang?
You complain about those of us who aren't fawning over this car, and claim that it's priced well against its competition, but yet the way you define it, it has no competition. When I go to look for a new car, I consider many vehicles in my price range, not just one. So as far as I'm concerned, the Genesis, Mustang, MX-5, and several others are comparable because I'd consider buying them instead of the Frisbee. If the Mustang has more power, more performance, equal fuel mileage, is better looking IMO, and is cheaper, why would I buy a Frisbee instead? The only thing it has that's better than the Mustang is it's lighter. Not enough to persuade me, unfortunately. But when you get your new Frisbee, swing by and give me a ride. Maybe I'll change my mind.

NOHOME wrote:

Chris_V wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Who said anything about new?

I did. I asked what its ACTUAL competition is NEW. WHO ELSE IS MAKING A CAR LIKE IT?????????????????? Listen, bob, OF COURSE used cars will be better berkeleying values than new cars. But NEW car manufacturers cannot build new cars at used car berkeleying prices. BREAKING NEWS! ATTENTION NEW CAR MANUFACTURERS!!! STOP MAKING NEW CARS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T COMPETE ON PRICE WITH USED CARS! Dumbass.

You are yelling at a 12 year old. The inability to read and respond to a topic does not typically get resolved until high school graduation. This has to be the case, or why else would he answer with a used car answer to a new car question? Save your breath to cool your soup.

So now we're delving into name calling? Is that all you got left? Nice. Real class act.

In reply to Bobzilla:

By the behavior of some of these guys, you'd think we were discussing religion or politics. Sheez.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: By the behavior of some of these guys, you'd think we were discussing religion or politics. Sheez.

Maybe the FRSBRZABC123 is kinda like a religion. You have to have faith in it?