It's a tough sell that's for sure.
It's a tough sell that's for sure.
There's a base '12 V6, 6 speed manual, Mustang on a lot nearby with an advertised price of $22.4k.
Joe Gearin wrote: You guys crack me up....... In 1986 a Corolla GTS had a MSRP of around $9,500. This translates into about $20K in today's money. This new FRS / BRZ will cost around $24K I find the extra $4K to be completely acceptable considering the new car has 200hp instead of 115hp. The new car weighs a bit more ( 2600lbs vs 2400lbs) but is infinitely safer, gets comparable gas mileage (with nearly double the power), and is much better looking. (IMHO)
Looks aside, there's one more critical thing.
The GT-S was a sport package based on a relatively high-production model. The FRS/BRZ do not have this luxury of shared expenses.
Re: Genesis Coupe. I saw one with the track package at the gas station here a couple months ago. Seeing the enormous brakes, I took a closer look. All I remember is that the sticker was $32k.
I like what I've seen of it, but I think I'll stick with my Miata for now. Retail price is one thing, but actual transaction prices are what really matter. I managed over $6K off a leftover 2010 Miata Sport last year, that should have pretty similar performance. I doubt Scion will be selling these below $20K out the door...
Knurled wrote:Joe Gearin wrote: You guys crack me up....... In 1986 a Corolla GTS had a MSRP of around $9,500. This translates into about $20K in today's money. This new FRS / BRZ will cost around $24K I find the extra $4K to be completely acceptable considering the new car has 200hp instead of 115hp. The new car weighs a bit more ( 2600lbs vs 2400lbs) but is infinitely safer, gets comparable gas mileage (with nearly double the power), and is much better looking. (IMHO)Looks aside, there's one more critical thing. The GT-S was a sport package based on a relatively high-production model. The FRS/BRZ do not have this luxury of shared expenses. Re: Genesis Coupe. I saw one with the track package at the gas station here a couple months ago. Seeing the enormous brakes, I took a closer look. All I remember is that the sticker was $32k.
Oh yeah, V6 track pack with auto is low to mid $30's. You can get the 2.0T with the 6-spd for ~$26k.
The next-gen Miata looks like it will be interesting. They're (allegedly) cutting the lard out and bringing it back down to 2200lb, and the power will be a direct injected 1.3l turbo making the same power as the current model.
Neeeeeeat.
^ Now that has me interested.
mad_machine wrote: I am surprised the auto has better mpgs than the manual.. I could see same.. but better?
Better rating does not equal better real-world. The manufacturer's know how to game the test (see BMW's recent lowering by 3MPG on the auto 328i F10, the Honda Lawsuits, etc). In reality-land the manual will trump the auto in normal driving. In the testing lab the auto's stupid computer will make it stick.
Javelin wrote:mad_machine wrote: I am surprised the auto has better mpgs than the manual.. I could see same.. but better?Better *rating* does not equal better *real-world*. The manufacturer's know how to game the test (see BMW's recent lowering by 3MPG on the auto 328i F10, the Honda Lawsuits, etc). In *reality-land* the manual will trump the auto in normal driving. In the testing lab the auto's stupid computer will make it stick.
Not true anymore. Modern automatic transmissions are lighter, have less parasitic loss and more gears than ever before and are CAPABLE of better highway milege because of better gearing and good TC lockup.
GameboyRMH wrote:rotard wrote: This is way too expensive. Too bad it's not $20k or so. I think most non-car people will jump to a Mustang for that price. Actually, I think most car people will jump to a Mustang for that price.Car people know the difference between a muscle car and a sport compact, and would probably be looking for one or the other vs. the people who just want something that looks sporty...
You're calling the FRS a sport compact? I think a Civic Si, MS3 or Focus ST would probably beat a FRS around a track. Hmmm.
rotard wrote:GameboyRMH wrote:You're calling the FRS a sport compact? I think a Civic Si or Focus ST would probably beat a FRS around a track. Hmmm.rotard wrote: This is way too expensive. Too bad it's not $20k or so. I think most non-car people will jump to a Mustang for that price. Actually, I think most car people will jump to a Mustang for that price.Car people know the difference between a muscle car and a sport compact, and would probably be looking for one or the other vs. the people who just want something that looks sporty...
I doubt the Si would. Focus maybe.
rotard wrote: You're calling the FRS a sport compact? I think a Civic Si or Focus ST would probably beat a FRS around a track. Hmmm.
Maybe. I bet an FRS would rape them both on an autocross course.
Bench racing rocks. It's so much cheaper than real racing.
In reply to Bobzilla:
I'm not saying modern automatics aren't more mileage friendly. They are. All the things you said are true. However, the EPA estimates are done in a lab with a controlled test that the manufacturers know, and they have been caught gaming the system multiple times. The computer-controlled autos can have the "ideal" program for that dyno route and give the best numbers possible, numbers that are nearly impossible in the real world. In many cases, the numbers actually reported by owners are better for the manuals than the automatics, especially compared to the EPA suggested numbers.
See the highly publicized Honda lawsuits and the news stories from last week on the F10 328i BMW.
ProDarwin wrote:rotard wrote: You're calling the FRS a sport compact? I think a Civic Si or Focus ST would probably beat a FRS around a track. Hmmm.Maybe. I bet an FRS would rape them both on an autocross course. Bench racing rocks. It's so much cheaper than real racing.
I don't think it would rape them on an autox course. A miata won't "rape" those cars on a autox course. You can get a Hyundai Elantra that'll rape them all while getting 75mpg. True story.
I'm still interested in the car. Very interested. I'm going to go drive one, if I can. But as others have said, I'm sure that the cars are going to be going for close to 30K around here.
Based on that, I'm really wondering if they are worth it. I wanted a hard top Miata, but for about the same dollars, I can probably find a used Elise, and I don't think anybody will disparage their ability to handle.
Oh, wait, I did: $27k in VA.
We'll see.
.
Keep in mind that around the Nurburgring, a track with lots of long straights, the FR-S is right on the heels of an S2000 so I'm pretty confident it would beat those cheaper compacts.
rotard wrote: I don't think it would rape them on an autox course. A miata won't "rape" those cars on a autox course.
Eh, guess its how you define rape. A CS Miata is way faster than a GS Si. Pax difference of 1.5 Seconds on a 60 second course (.814 vs .833). In ST trim there is slightly less disparity, but its still pretty significant.
rotard wrote: You can get a Hyundai Elantra that'll rape them all while getting 75mpg. True story.
Truth. And it only increases in value! Best car ever!
the Genesis is plain unattractive, and heavy. The Mustang looks great from the front but terrible weird from the rear. And it's a heavy live-axle dime-a-dozen car. Sick of the lame comparisons the brilliant new Toyobaru gets. This car has NO current competition. But wait... doesn't $24000 buy a racecar, trailer, tow vehicle AND spares?? I think it does.
wrek496 wrote: the Genesis is plain unattractive, and heavy. The Mustang looks great from the front but terrible weird from the rear. And it's a heavy live-axle dime-a-dozen car. Sick of the lame comparisons the brilliant new Toyobaru gets. This car has NO current competition. But wait... doesn't $24000 buy a racecar, trailer, tow vehicle AND spares?? I think it does.
and that's what makes this country great! I don't like the looks of the nose of this that much personally and prefer the GC. WE get to have choices!
The toyobaru is essentially a brand new 944 or FC RX7 Turbo in size, layout, hp and price relative to market. And it's the ONLY car of it's ilk on the market. The kind of car we enthusiasts have been crying for since the departure of those earlier cars. And when it finally get here, it's compared to heavier, larger semi-enthusiast cars that are exactly the kinds of overweight, oversized "sport coupes" that we enthuisasts were complaining about?
Sometimes I really don't get car guys. 
The AE86 cost more than a 5.0 Mustang in the '80s. So did the RX7 TII and 944. So a high tech, non-shared-chassis sport coupe costs more than a basic econobox, and you're shocked? And an all new, non-shared-chassis lightweight IRS, high revving, outstanding handling sport coupe cost almost the same as an amortized, base level, live axle sport coupe and this is a problem?
Jesus. I own a Mustang, and love Mustangs, and even I know that it's a retarded comparison.
rotard wrote:ProDarwin wrote:I don't think it would rape them on an autox course. A miata won't "rape" those cars on a autox course. You can get a Hyundai Elantra that'll rape them all while getting 75mpg. True story.rotard wrote: You're calling the FRS a sport compact? I think a Civic Si or Focus ST would probably beat a FRS around a track. Hmmm.Maybe. I bet an FRS would rape them both on an autocross course. Bench racing rocks. It's so much cheaper than real racing.
Can you get one that won't rape? Because I would prefer not to get raped by my car if it confuses me with a Miata, Civic, etc.
The Toyobaru can rape me any day.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: The Toyobaru can rape me any day.
I like to start the morning off that way. It's better than coffee.
MG Bryan wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: The Toyobaru can rape me any day.I like to start the morning off that way. It's better than coffee.
I'm a dragon, bro!
I was hoping that it wouldn't be Scion's flagship...I was hoping that it would be a TC replacement with a TC price.
They'll sell a lot of them, but those that have been dreaming will continue to do so, and likely buy another used car for a 1/4 the price that will outperform it.
You'll need to log in to post.
