Scion FRS to start around $24,200?

racerdave600 wrote: Wow, you guys are a tough crowd. This is exactly the car many here have been whinning about not having. Here it is and complain complain complain. And how many here have actually been shopping new cars lately? 24K is a freakin' steal. Hyundai Genesis 2.0T R-Spec. Cheapest I could get at ALL was 25.7k without tax and title. I tried several dealers and no budging on the price. Nada, zilch. Said they could sell everyone they got. It was ok, nice driving, but had horrible feeling clutch and was plasticky inside and only ok steering feel. Mustang: Finding one for the price you guys are throwing around with that equipment is difficult to be sure. Closer to 30k is more realistic unless you can find a dealer that will order one for you. They are marking these up too from what I could find. In fact, the last two Ford dealers I went to, of the 15 or so Mustangs that each one had, only one had a Mustang under 30k on the lot. The V8's started around 36k, and steering feel was marginal at best. It drove "big" and was only sort of inspiring. At least the V8 would do big smokey burn outs! I really wanted the Roush version that I drove though. Even new Miatas are difficult to get at 24k unless you get one absolutely stripped (and once again find a dealer that has one or will order one), and that means no LSD. 25k-26k is more reasonable for one with the right boxes checked. They crest the 30k mark very easily if you want many options. If I hadn't just bought a Cooper S (new price like mine: 28k with some options but no where near loaded) I would be all over one of these. HP numbers are just numbers. It's what a car does with them that matters. Look at BMWs, they usually never have the highest numbers for their class, and my old X1/9 would smoke cars with 4x the hp ratings on a regular basis autocrossing. If it is anything like my old MR2's or the Supras we used to race, it will be a nice car. I'm looking forward to driving one. In the mean time, I applaud Toyota and Subaru for actually listening to a small number of people and producing the car.

I hope that it channels the spirit of the 1970 240Z that I learned to drive with. That car kept me plenty entertained.

I can't hate it too much. It pretty much is a 7th gen celica or civic si with rwd. However, $24k feels a bit steep when I can buy a low mileage nc miata or rx8 for half the price. If I were in the market for a new car and not worried about snow, I would buy this.

That said, I really want to see a brz with awd and a turbo.

sanman wrote: I can't hate it too much. It pretty much is a 7th gen celica or civic si with rwd. However, $24k feels a bit steep when I can buy a low mileage nc miata or rx8 for half the price. If I were in the market for a new car and not worried about snow, I would buy this. That said, I really want to see a brz with awd and a turbo.

Interesting point. I think this would be an awesome base model to the 300 hp STI version. It would somehow make me feel better. Kind of like if there was only a V6 mustang, everyone would hate mustangs. Since its a cheaper more fuel efficient little brother to the GT/500 etc. then it's ok and even worth consideration. I honestly think that a $35k STI version would put this car in perspective and they sell more of them and people would hate on this lower spec car a lot less.

AWD is impossible on the BRZ. The front diff would be in the front cylinders.

Subaru's traditional turbo setup is also completely out of the question. It has to be an entirely new setup. A WRX turbo would be in the passenger footwell and extend down to the ground in the BRZ chassis.

FWIW, Subaru's own BRZ STi showcar was even N/A. In fact, it didn't have a single HP increase at all.

Javelin wrote: AWD is impossible on the BRZ. The front diff would be in the front cylinders.

Are you challenging me? I think an AWD BRZ sounds pretty easy, if I wanted to spend the money buying one to build it. If GM (and others) can put a differential in the oil pan on tens of thousands of vehicles, then I'm willing to say it's not impossible.

Bryce

I have come around. Were I in the market for a vehicle that was 2+2 in a pinch, this would be it. Honestly.

My wife just peed on a stick, though, so that makes four for us.

tuna55 wrote: I have come around. Were I in the market for a vehicle that was 2+2 in a pinch, this would be it. Honestly. My wife just peed on a stick, though, so that makes four for us.

Congrats!
You saying four people in the family, or four kids? Four people leaves you open to just about everything, four kids less so. Ask me how I know. I need to seat 5 in a pinch if one of the big vehicles is down and I have to haul all of the kids. Sporty cars that seat 4 are all over the place, those that seat five, not so much.

mazdeuce wrote:

tuna55 wrote: I have come around. Were I in the market for a vehicle that was 2+2 in a pinch, this would be it. Honestly. My wife just peed on a stick, though, so that makes four for us.

Congrats! You saying four people in the family, or four kids? Four people leaves you open to just about everything, four kids less so. Ask me how I know. I need to seat 5 in a pinch if one of the big vehicles is down and I have to haul all of the kids. Sporty cars that seat 4 are all over the place, those that seat five, not so much.

Thanks! Four kids, now, but my intent was not to hijack the thread. I was actually considering one, using the "well I will likely only be traveling with two" argument, thinking I could use the minivan for everything else. Not only does four kids absolutely kill the money, but the whole "partial rear seats" do it too.

Too bad, I am warming to it now. My Volvo 940 felt fast enough. Not insane, balls-out fast, but fast enough. This car has the same (if not better) straight line speed with no turbo lag, but has handling to back it up. I'd love to do some track days to accompany the Lemons stuff, the Volvo was never up to it. Oh well - I'll have to wait.

My wife and I actually had a serious sit down discussion about cars before we decided to have our third. If we stopped at two then I could get a 911 as a super daddy car. If I had two, I'd totally stuff the little buggers in the back of a BRZ and call it a family car. People with two kids and a minivan are idiots. Cars like toyoburu are perfect for young families. Totally serious.

In reply to Nashco:

The engine is too low. Javelin speaks the truth - the diff wouldn't be in the oil pan. It would literally be where the front two cylinders and crankshaft are. It is just plain not possible without some serious re-engineering.

mazdeuce wrote: My wife and I actually had a serious sit down discussion about cars before we decided to have our third. If we stopped at two then I could get a 911 as a super daddy car. If I had two, I'd totally stuff the little buggers in the back of a BRZ and call it a family car. People with two kids and a minivan are idiots. Cars like toyoburu are perfect for young families. Totally serious.

Yep, for the first decade of my life my dad's DD/work truck was a restored 1972 chev 1/2 ton with a shift kit that'd chirp the tires into 2nd at anything more than idle. He even bounced our heads off the dash once or twice when we didn't buckle up...

^sniff^ this post is making me all sentimental!

Nashco wrote:

Javelin wrote: AWD is impossible on the BRZ. The front diff would be in the front cylinders.

Are you challenging me? I think an AWD BRZ sounds pretty easy, if I wanted to spend the money buying one to build it. If GM (and others) can put a differential in the oil pan on tens of thousands of vehicles, then I'm willing to say it's not impossible. Bryce

Consider the challenge official! We aren't talking oil pan here, the front diff would literally be in the same place as #1 and #2 cylinders. It ain't happening without a foot of engine setback or at least an 8" engine lift/ suspension drop.

Javelin wrote:

Nashco wrote:

Javelin wrote: AWD is impossible on the BRZ. The front diff would be in the front cylinders.

Are you challenging me? I think an AWD BRZ sounds pretty easy, if I wanted to spend the money buying one to build it. If GM (and others) can put a differential in the oil pan on tens of thousands of vehicles, then I'm willing to say it's not impossible. Bryce

Consider the challenge official! We aren't talking oil pan here, the front diff would literally be in the same place as #1 and #2 cylinders. It ain't happening without a foot of engine setback or at least an 8" engine lift/ suspension drop.

I think Bryce has proved that he can make anything out of anything else. I don't see it as relevant to the current thread (which was, as you may remember, about the pricing for the 86 thing), but it is relevant to his awesomeness. Unless you feel that his Challenge entry was lame, perhaps we'd better get back on track. Bryce could likely make it half radial powered and half rotary powered just to confuse people on the internet. It doesn't matter (to this thread).

mazdeuce wrote: My wife and I actually had a serious sit down discussion about cars before we decided to have our third. If we stopped at two then I could get a 911 as a super daddy car. If I had two, I'd totally stuff the little buggers in the back of a BRZ and call it a family car. People with two kids and a minivan are idiots. Cars like toyoburu are perfect for young families. Totally serious.

I am 6'4" my wife is 5'11" My oldest is projected to be over 6'8" (at 7 he is 5 ft and 100lbs) My youngest is projected to be 6'1"

You want me to buy what and put them where?

Javelin wrote: Consider the challenge official! We aren't talking oil pan here, the front diff would literally be in the same place as #1 and #2 cylinders. It ain't happening without a foot of engine setback or at least an 8" engine lift/ suspension drop.

You say that like a foot of engine setback is a bad thing...

I can see a way AWD would be more possible. It involves hub motors. Talk about your torque-vectoring possibilities! The Prelude SH and the new Focus SVO/SVT/whichever got nothin' on that concept. And, man, if you had a decent amount of scrub radius and good enough control, you wouldn't ever need power steering either!

Say, that reminds me, has anyone checked out the new GM light hybrid design? They stuck the combination generator/drive motor on the crank end. Driven by the accessory belt. Complicated bugger of a belt tensioner to deal with the load reversal when the generator turns into the vehicle's motivation, too.

FlightService wrote: I am 6'4" my wife is 5'11" My oldest is projected to be over 6'8" (at 7 he is 5 ft and 100lbs) My youngest is projected to be 6'1" You want me to buy what and put them where?

Come on man, you're a mutant and your older son won't even fit in the front of any of these cars. Clearly there are exceptions, but when I hear people say that they have to sell their 3 series because their first kid is on the way I wonder what the hell is going on. My wife drove a first gen Audi TT for four years and people were always shocked when kids would crawl out of the back seat. I contend, normal sized people with a normal sized family could make a 2+2 work.

Javelin wrote: AWD is impossible on the BRZ. The front diff would be in the front cylinders. Subaru's traditional turbo setup is also completely out of the question. It has to be an entirely new setup. A WRX turbo would be in the passenger footwell and extend down to the ground in the BRZ chassis. FWIW, Subaru's own BRZ STi showcar was even N/A. In fact, it didn't have a single HP increase at all.

Who said anything about AWD?

And if some idiot like me can design a turbo setup that works just fine for thousands of miles, i'm pretty sure Subaru could figure something out. They'd just have to go a little outside their "box" to do so. You know... something outside the box like... selling a RWD sports car.

PS: Supercharged FR-S already caught in testing by multiple sources.

No, seriously though... why are we talking about AWD?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Who said anything about AWD? And if some idiot like me can design a turbo setup that works just fine for thousands of miles, i'm pretty sure Subaru could figure something out. They'd just have to go a little outside their "box" to do so. You know... something outside the box like... selling a RWD sports car. PS: Supercharged FR-S already caught in testing by multiple sources. No, seriously though... why are we talking about AWD?

Yeah, that was my fault

I wanted to see a boosted awd version of the brz. However, people here are assuming that they boost the engine that is currently in the car and add awd. This is not necessarily so. I'm looking forward to seeing a supercharged version.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Do you actually read any part of a thread before commenting? Somebody else asked if there was going to be an AWD STi and multiple people pointed out that it's impossible on this chassis, and we even mentioned the still-RWD, still-N/A STi concept car. If you just want to pick on a particular person, the least you can do is read the whole thread before spouting a comment that makes you look like a fool.

sanman wrote: However, $24k feels a bit steep when I can buy a low mileage nc miata or rx8 for half the price.

I don't know why anyone bothers to even point this out. The "low mileage used car for 1/2 the price" argument can be applied to anything.

Thought i would bump the thread. Autoblog has a First Drive review, sounds pretty awesome.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/26/2013-subaru-brz-first-drive-review-video/

Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Do you actually read any part of a thread before commenting? Somebody else asked if there was going to be an AWD STi and *multiple* people pointed out that it's impossible on this chassis, and we even mentioned the still-RWD, still-N/A STi concept car. If you just want to pick on a particular person, the least you can do is read the whole thread before spouting a comment that makes you look like a fool.

uhhhhhhhhhhh..... what?

failboat wrote: Thought i would bump the thread. Autoblog has a First Drive review, sounds pretty awesome. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/26/2013-subaru-brz-first-drive-review-video/

The writer did everything but perform felatio on the car. Then again, he gushes about every car he drives.

failboat wrote: Thought i would bump the thread. Autoblog has a First Drive review, sounds pretty awesome. http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/26/2013-subaru-brz-first-drive-review-video/

I believe that's the first time anyone from Subaru has on record about a possible factory power/turbo upgrade coming down the pipeline. Toshio Masuda says possibly as much as 280 hp. As GRM is my witness, if they build a BRZ with 280 hp, 240 ft-lb and keep the weight around 2800 lbs, I'm a buyer ... so help me GRM.

mazdeuce wrote:

FlightService wrote: I am 6'4" my wife is 5'11" My oldest is projected to be over 6'8" (at 7 he is 5 ft and 100lbs) My youngest is projected to be 6'1" You want me to buy what and put them where?

Come on man, you're a mutant and your older son won't even fit in the front of any of these cars. Clearly there are exceptions, but when I hear people say that they have to sell their 3 series because their first kid is on the way I wonder what the hell is going on. My wife drove a first gen Audi TT for four years and people were always shocked when kids would crawl out of the back seat. I contend, normal sized people with a normal sized family could make a 2+2 work.

OK I can`t argue any of those points.

I would do a 3 if I only had one kid. The Mustang was originally a 2+2 for that exact reason.

When it comes to any car I have to try it on first

For the longest time we did it with an 03 Focus ZX3 (with the first kid) The rear area cover makes a great baby changing station in a pinch.