Scion FRS vs Subie BRZ

I think the suspension differences are in springs, shock valving and rear sway bar.

singleslammer wrote: What do you guys mean about the BRZ having a nicer interior? Is there less hard plastic or what?

IIRC the seat fabric on the Subaru appeared to be higher quality. I think there are multiple other small trim differences.

When I worked for subaru, these cars came out and we got to flog them. I went in to the deal thinking that all the magazines were crazy and everybody was missing the point about the power. I thought that no grip tires, light weight and 200 hp was a great idea and that a revolution in the auto industry was coming. Then I drove two, and I thought "well the chassis feels pretty good, but it needs a bunch more power" maybe it's the delivery or the engine note or something, but to me these cars are underwhelming as hell stock (maybe the same performance and a 600cc sportbike soundtrack would be a different deal entirely, then you could forgive the lack of grunt and just enjoy wringing the e36m3 out of it). Now I've driven 5 and think i'll keep $20,000 in my pocket and keep looking for a white aw11sc, or build a 2zzge powered spyder. The trd griffon is pretty cool though.

wspohn wrote: Both are good looking cars with useless back seats and not enough power.

I can fit a front-facing car seat back there. And I have actually driven three co-workers < 2 miles to lunch before. We got there, but they didn't ask me again. Still, it's infinitely more usable than no back seat at all.

I still don't get the low power claims. 0-60 in 6.2 and the 1/4 in 14.5. This is slow?
My 1990 911 is almost identical.
The current Miata is almost identical.
Lots of modern cars are faster, but the FRS/BRZ is fine.

I don't have a big issue with the power either. But maybe that's because I grew up in an era when 100hp or less was the norm and 0-60 times were measured with a slide rule. I will say the sound of the engine is not very exciting, but I've also never heard one without a stock exhaust, so maybe that's fixable.

mazdeuce wrote: I still don't get the low power claims. 0-60 in 6.2 and the 1/4 in 14.5. This is slow? My 1990 911 is almost identical. The current Miata is almost identical. Lots of modern cars are faster, but the FRS/BRZ is fine.

I,m with you. It is the single most heard critisim about the car. I wish just one person could tell me what automotive function is not powerful enough to perform and what the cut-off limit for that function would be?

mazdeuce wrote: I still don't get the low power claims. 0-60 in 6.2 and the 1/4 in 14.5. This is slow? My 1990 911 is almost identical. The current Miata is almost identical. Lots of modern cars are faster, but the FRS/BRZ is fine.

Have you driven one? I currently drive a Miata. I'm pretty sure the Miata is slower than the BRZ. I just don't like the way the power is delivered. Not for me.

I think that it is likely much faster than it feels. But that is the problem. For something that is going to be on the street rather than the track 99.99% of the time, I would rather have something that feels faster than it is.

In reply to mtn:

I have. My friend owns the BRZ that was driven at Rallycross Nationals last year. It's a fun car. I don't mind how the power is delivered, though I grew up on 90hp crap boxes so I'm pretty happy with any power. Hell, I didn't mind the 100hp on my Mazda2.
I think they're fast enough, dynamically fantastic, good looking and affordable. There is nothing like them for sale right now. I keep searching for a reason to buy one but they are pretty much a perfect overlap with my 911 on paper. Dammit.
I did see a FRS TV commercial on ESPN at the dentist today. I didn't know they were doing actual real advertising for them now. Good for Toyota.

maybe it's enough power in the dirt

maybe it's plenty and I'm just more jaded than I thought

but my bet is, if it was 200 at the wheels, no one would be complaining, including you.

I drive a 5,000lb SUV with 110hp. I doubt I'd be complaining with one of those cars.

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to mtn: I have. My friend owns the BRZ that was driven at Rallycross Nationals last year. It's a fun car. I don't mind how the power is delivered, though I grew up on 90hp crap boxes so I'm pretty happy with any power. Hell, I didn't mind the 100hp on my Mazda2. I think they're fast enough, dynamically fantastic, good looking and affordable. There is nothing like them for sale right now. I keep searching for a reason to buy one but they are pretty much a perfect overlap with my 911 on paper. Dammit. I did see a FRS TV commercial on ESPN at the dentist today. I didn't know they were doing actual real advertising for them now. Good for Toyota.

Just making sure. Because before I drove one, I would have agreed with you. Afterwards, no thanks.

Now, this would be an entirely different story if I lived somewhere with twisty roads, but I live in one of the flattest parts of the country.

In reply to mtn:

Me too, but somehow I still didn't mind. The thing for me is that I don't have much need to really lay on it and pull away. Other cars and speed limits and such, but I do get to take several slow 90 corners with good sight lines daily. Those couple of opportunities to downshift and get the car set and choose a good line and roll onto the throttle make life worth living. It's why having to drive my truck daily is draining my soul.

Just so that y'all know, there ARE creative ways around the lack of power and the people on this board are supposedly just the ones to do this.

Are the Toyobaru twins going to be the next V8 Miata industry?

FYI the Leaf and the BRZ are neck and neck to 45, not sure how you want to take that.

I find it amusing that a board that thinks the answer to everything is Miata-- complains about an affordable, fun, sporty car that has performance very similar to the Mazda. While the Frizbee twins are no rocketships, they're a bit quicker than a Miata, and equally fun.

I've driven them on the street and on track. I like them.....a lot. If I was in the market for a new car, they'd be high on my list.

Joe Gearin wrote: I've driven them on the street and on track. I like them.....a lot. If I was in the market for a new car, they'd be high on my list.

One of my students this past weekend had a BR-Z and it damn near sold me on going and getting one. There are things I'd like to change about the suspension and tires but the car was fun, tossable, predictable ... sounded pretty good... accelerated fine if you kept the speed and revs up. The seats were great too.

It was a nice NA momentum car very much like the E30 318is or a Miata only not immediately associated with secretaries or coming out of the closet. You have to drive the snot out of it but that is the fun part. Everything can always have more power but I didn't find it to be a huge deficit. I'd add more tire first.

I will vouch for them sounding VERY interesting with a nice exhaust.

When we were on the way down to TN to pick up the new motor for the MX6, we made a gas stop. Some kid in a nice dark red FRS went out of the gas station and hammered it.

I stopped in my tracks and got whiplash trying to figure out where that unearthly burbl-y howling was coming from. My brain refused to believe that it was from the FRS.

SO GOOD.

Hmm....will a WRX engine fit in a BRZ.......then the performance will be up to the appearance.

Have to say one thing about the Miata - it never looked like it should have any more than the modest performance that it had. restyle it to look like a mini-cobra and everyone would be expecting more in the power department.

In reply to wspohn:

Yeah but the Miata is still sporty looking, especially the NB models. Its embarrasing when a soccer mom in a Honda minivan pulls on you without noticing it. People try to race my friend in his Miata all the time (facepalm)

NOHOME wrote: Just so that y'all know, there ARE creative ways around the lack of power and the people on this board are supposedly just the ones to do this. Are the Toyobaru twins going to be the next V8 Miata industry?

I pointed out to a new BR-Z owner that his car made more HP, at lower RPM, than my bridge ported RX-7. And probably got better fuel economy. And probably was more comfortable to drive. So therefore he should rallycross it since he'd sold his heavily built WRX.

wspohn wrote: Hmm....will a WRX engine fit in a BRZ.......then the performance will be up to the appearance. Have to say one thing about the Miata - it never looked like it should have any more than the modest performance that it had. restyle it to look like a mini-cobra and everyone would be expecting more in the power department.

I wouldn't put a WRX engine in the BRZ. The FA20 in the BRZ is a better engine in every way.

Add boost to the BRZ motor. Laugh maniacally.

I still can't believe its not butter.

Swank Force One wrote: I will vouch for them sounding VERY interesting with a nice exhaust. When we were on the way down to TN to pick up the new motor for the MX6, we made a gas stop. Some kid in a nice dark red FRS went out of the gas station and hammered it. I stopped in my tracks and got whiplash trying to figure out where that unearthly burbl-y howling was coming from. My brain refused to believe that it was from the FRS. SO GOOD.

There's an FRS around here with a sport exhaust. It sounds like a Cessna. These cars really need two more cylinders. Might not stop the complaints about horsepower but they'd definitely sound a lot better!

tuna55 wrote: FYI the Leaf and the BRZ are neck and neck to 45, not sure how you want to take that.

Because I know the secret: electric motors develop maximum torque at 0 rpm.