In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
I was thinking of the big Lincoln Y-Block. There was also the seriously bizarre Ford Super Duty 401, 477 and 534 V8s. They used the angled deck of the W-motor and MEL 430 but also a weird single log plenum built into the cylinder head that fed all the cylinders on that bank.
wheels777 said:Streetwiseguy said:wheels777 said:W motors suck. Fords FE made them extinct in short order.
You are giving Ford a lot of credit. I'd bet some intelligent engineer at GM went into the office one day and said, "Which one of you morons invented this pile of E36 M3 that is making us invest in a billion dollars worth of tooling to build something nobody can fix? We are not German, for chrissakes!"
A W never won Lemans.
A W never did much of anything other than piss machine shops off, inspire songs, win some drag races and look cool.
In reply to A 401 CJ :
The 256 / 304 / 345/ 392 family is the IHC SV series, the smallblock.
The MV series (medium), 551 etc are for OTR trucks only.
The LV series (large) are stationary powerplant engines. Very much a big block but we're talking automotive here.
wheels777 said:Streetwiseguy said:wheels777 said:W motors suck. Fords FE made them extinct in short order.
You are giving Ford a lot of credit. I'd bet some intelligent engineer at GM went into the office one day and said, "Which one of you morons invented this pile of E36 M3 that is making us invest in a billion dollars worth of tooling to build something nobody can fix? We are not German, for chrissakes!"
A W never won Lemans.
Or much of anything else, either. They kept blowing up in NASCAR.
In reply to NickD :
My dad had a water delivery truck with a 401 V6 and I had similar ideas. It was a nasty sounding beast
ShawnG said:In reply to A 401 CJ :
The 256 / 304 / 345/ 392 family is the IHC SV series, the smallblock.
The MV series (medium), 551 etc are for OTR trucks only.
The LV series (large) are stationary powerplant engines. Very much a big block but we're talking automotive here.
So, S,M, and L for small, medium, and large. V for V8. Nobody ever made any money selling books about how to decode Internationals I take it.
The SV series is jokingly called the "bread truck engine" because, well...
We've done a couple 348 / 409 engines for customer cars. Dress them up with tripower and some shiny billet parts and they look the business. They're great in a light Model A or 32 with no hood sides.
In '56, Lincoln punched their big Y-block out to 368. It made 300-ish hp and 400-ish lb/ft. There's one in the '56 Continental at work and it motivates that big barge very well. There's a lot of gravity in that engine and it takes up a lot of space.
So to recap at this point in the thread, BBC (Chevy) for those that want the answer. BBC (Cadillac) for those that want the torque. All the rest are just trying to be different.
A 401 CJ said:Here's one that is way underrated and hasn't been mentioned. I'm not sure if it's truly a big block or just a larger cubic inch version of the only block they made: IH 392. Even the little sister 345 punched way over its weight. A 345 Scout would outrun anything else in its category powered by a 350 or 351 cubic inch engine. A 392 fits anywhere a 345 lives. Does anybody hot rod these? Not that I know of but it'd be cool to see.
They have zero aftermarket, or at least almost zero. They can be hotrodded, but they are a tractor engine. They took their 4 cyl tractor engine and made it into a V8. Not kidding.
It also weighs right around 800 lbs. Big journals, heavy 4-ring pistons on some early ones... They're a torquey beast, but not the go-to for hot rodding.
Having driven 454s, 460s, and 440s, the most exciting was the 440 though that may have only been because it was a factory tow job in a half ton. That van would scoot. The 460s felt more like "just strap it on, doesn't matter. Weight is meaningless". All the torque you could ever need. Better to work on than the dodge. And the 454s weren't that impressive, though all that I've driven have been TBI units.
cheap always means Chevy in my experience, though I generally enjoy the fords more.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:A 401 CJ said:Here's one that is way underrated and hasn't been mentioned. I'm not sure if it's truly a big block or just a larger cubic inch version of the only block they made: IH 392. Even the little sister 345 punched way over its weight. A 345 Scout would outrun anything else in its category powered by a 350 or 351 cubic inch engine. A 392 fits anywhere a 345 lives. Does anybody hot rod these? Not that I know of but it'd be cool to see.
They have zero aftermarket, or at least almost zero. They can be hotrodded, but they are a tractor engine. They took their 4 cyl tractor engine and made it into a V8. Not kidding.
It also weighs right around 800 lbs. Big journals, heavy 4-ring pistons on some early ones... They're a torquey beast, but not the go-to for hot rodding.
I had a 392 in a 72 Travelall, and loved it... for what it was. Had no intrest in trying to hop it up, though.
I'm under the impression that IH's 6.9 IDI diesel was based on the same arcetecture... if so there are a LOT of big horsepower IH's around
Streetwiseguy said:
428 is ancient and heavy as hell, but can be fast.
A 428 was the large bore/stroke FE, and not "really" considered a big block. And for that many cubes, they were quite light, for the times.
Not saying one would be the best choice. Def. not on a budget. But they do look cool.
ProDarwin said:I like the Jag v12 because it produces the most interesting discussions.
Now, thats funny!
wheels777 said:I have owned, raced and owned and raced BBF, BBO, BBM, BBP and BBC.
I'm being dense tonight, I guess, but I haven't been able to work out the "M" in BBM, yet.
In reply to 03Panther :
The IDI was developed for Ford by IHC, There's not really any SV engine DNA in it from what I've seen, having worked on both of them.
The IHC slant 4s were half a V8, the V8 was not developed from them. The V8 came out in '59 and the 4-banger came out in '61.
The 152 is half a 304 and the 196 is half a 392. Pistons, rods, heads, oil pan, timing cover and exhaust manifolds are shared with the corresponding V8. This was all done to minimise tooling and inventory cost.
The SV v8s have gear driven cams, sodium filled exhaust valves, shaft mounted rockers and a high nickel content casting, they also have a factory recommended overhaul interval of 500,000 miles. They're a proper truck engine made for long service, not a repurposed car engine like everyone else used.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I tallied the results quickly (so not scientific)
429F - 1
460F - 4
428F - 1
427F - 1440/BBM - 3
Jag V12 - 2
425O - 1
455B - 3
454/BBC - 4
409W - 1
8.1L - 1
500/472 - eleventy quillionTotally trustworthy tabulation.
(ok, really, 4 people included it as a favorite, I just counted my vote eleventy quillion-minus-4 times)
Looks like BBC, 460 BBF, and Cad 500 are tied each with 4.
I would counter the math, since a 428/427 are the same FE, (2 for FE) and a 429/460 are both 385's, with 5 votes, that's 7 for Ford...
I'm a Ford guy from way back, and will still side with you on the Caddy!
In reply to ShawnG :
Cool info. Thanks.
Couldn't tell ya where I heard the 392 and 6.9 shared some DNA... never know what urban legends will come up with! I didn't ever need anything but oil changes on the 392, and never compaired 'em.
I have worked on and driven IDI's in both Internationals and fords, from the 80's 6.9 a friend bought new, to the 6.0 I'm driving now.
I do know the 392 def. had PLEANTY of low end power to move that Travelall around!
This thread has me reconsidering the 454 I was putting in my 1960 El Camino...
It would be the perfect home for a Caddy 500...
03Panther said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I tallied the results quickly (so not scientific)
429F - 1
460F - 4
428F - 1
427F - 1440/BBM - 3
Jag V12 - 2
425O - 1
455B - 3
454/BBC - 4
409W - 1
8.1L - 1
500/472 - eleventy quillionTotally trustworthy tabulation.
(ok, really, 4 people included it as a favorite, I just counted my vote eleventy quillion-minus-4 times)
Looks like BBC, 460 BBF, and Cad 500 are tied each with 4.
I would counter the math, since a 428/427 are the same FE, (2 for FE) and a 429/460 are both 385's, with 5 votes, that's 7 for Ford...
I'm a Ford guy from way back, and will still side with you on the Caddy!
Throw me on the Ford 460 side of the tally. The below statement is true. From an empty F350 to 24k pounds, even the fuel economy doesn't change much.
Barefootskater said: The 460s felt more like "just strap it on, doesn't matter. Weight is meaningless". All the torque you could ever need.
In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :
In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :
Damn, I was really hoping this thread was gonna take off like this. Thanks a lot everyone- the ideas and build concepts also really help!
Right now like Curtis pointed out, there's like 3 choices; Caddy 500, Ford 460 and some variant of the big-block chevy. Accessibility means I'll probably go ford, but there might be a chance with 77 Caddy that could have a 425; there was also 472 a little while ago I was kicking around nabbing, but coulda woulda shoulda and I missed my chance. If it is a 425, I'm nabbing the whole thing and going Caddy; it likely will have the highest potential before getting to high-dollar items like aftermarket heads.
Mopars are likely completely out; the only times I've seen 440s for sale are from fans who charge absurd prices and everyone's seen the Roadkill episodes, so around here anytime a motorhome comes up for sale with one it has the stipulation of that it either has to be scrapped by the buyer or it's been removed already by the seller for a fee. 383/400s with a 440 crank interest me, but likely suffer the same fate after youtubers like Lucore automotive have built and tested them.
As for why a big block? Because I wanna be dumb and loud and obnoxious.
While I have nothing against the 472, the 500 is the same engine and the same price for 6% more cubes and 2000% more bragging rights.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:While I have nothing against the 472, the 500 is the same engine and the same price for 6% more cubes and 2000% more bragging rights.
Only problem is getting the 500 lmao
I know that the caddy 500 crank can be trued down 0.300" to accept BBC rods- and thus, suddenly jump to 541ci and cheap parts. Cost wise I'd much rather go for rods and pistons than mess with aftermarket heads- are there similar things can be done with the Ford 460? I'm pretty sure the smog heads can be bored out heavily and it also has a wide range of aftermarket stuff.
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