In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I've known the displacement of these engines since they were in production, but I've never seen the statistics for the bore and stroke.
It just emphasizes how staggeringly large they are!
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I've known the displacement of these engines since they were in production, but I've never seen the statistics for the bore and stroke.
It just emphasizes how staggeringly large they are!
429s had a 4.36" bore.
What is wild is the Chrysler 400 had a 4.34" bore! Talk about your oversquare engines.... the bore was almost an inch larger than the stroke. That's how you can build a low deck 451, or even larger.
I like Chrysler big blocks, they're all big bore short stroke things. But the stock heads are not very exciting, unless you're talking Hemi, in which case you spend a lot of money and end up with really heavy pistons with a dome so huge that it interferes with combustion, unless you want a 6:1 compression blower motor. Aftermarket heads are pretty good nowadays, but for the same money, I'd take a Chevy engine over nostalgia.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
You can actually put a 4.375" stroke in a 383/400 block, which is a full extra inch of stroke. And as I recall, there isn't any crazy machine work or clearancing involved. The other nice thing about big block Mopars is that you can change intakes really fast and easy, no touching the distributor or resealing the lifter valley. Hot Rod Mag tested 17 intakes on a 383 in a day and they said, if it had been an SBC or BBC or SBF, that wouldn't have been possible.
In reply to NickD :
Pontiac is the same way.
If you cut the water crossover off of the manifold, you don't even have to drain the coolant.
In reply to ShawnG :
How the hell do you remove the intake manifold with the distributor in the way? I recall there not being enough room to tilt the intake up. I've done it, but the timing cover was off anyway.
Also, BERRRRRRK Pontiac intake manifolds with the square O-ring between the manifold and timing cover. Also berk Pontiac headers, especially on anything with a 4 speed transmission, which seems like most classics with Pontiac engines. Also berk Pontiac starters. (The exhaust, Z-bar, starter, and steering box all seem to occupy the same place)
Y'know, I can't actually think of a redeeming quality about Pontiac engines other than that they came in Pontiacs. 
You could always tell when a car never did anything but idle around, because the paint on the cylinder heads wasn't burnt off. (I have OPINIONS. I used to work for a shop that saw a lot of Pontiacs because the owner's dad made a name for himself drag racing Pontiacs, and even made his own copper head gaskets and other stuff, so I saw a lot of GTOs and Firebirds)
They DID have reverse-flow cooling close to 40 years before Chevy did it on the LT1, running the water pump to those big core plugs on the ends of the heads, with a flow director manifold inside the head for an even distribution of coolant instead of just shoving it in at the front of the engine and letting it sort itself out... but they stopped doing it sometime in the late 50s.
So I went down a bit of a Google rabbit hole cuz of this thread. Sorry, I'm not trying to derail it (I vote caddy 500). It got surreal cuz the answer I was looking for was not forthcoming. But there are such things as 1000+cubic inch bent8's out there, say for instance Sonny's SAR 1005 (2100HP) (n/a) ( 1550 tq) ($100 grand) (OMG). OK, so they're obviously using a bespoke block. Prolly insane bore spacing. A stroke like a locomotive. Question is, how the berk are we fitting double or more the displacement inside what looks to be a standard sized bigblock form factor? It just don't seem reasonable. .
In reply to Jay_W :
Sonny's mountain motors are GIANT. They do certainly not fit where a normal big block fits. You might be able to fit one in a car but only if you go to a straight axle front end.
Unless you meant, how are we making 600+ cubic inch engines from engines that started life as 350-396ci? The engines were designed with room to grow, is the only real reason. Even then it gets sketchy. I tore down a BBF that was something like 570ci that almost poked the wristpins out the bottom of the bores at BDC. The reason I tore it down was because whoever machined the block did not put a chamfer on the bottom of the bore, so it was working as a dandy piston shaver. Lots of fine aluminum dust/paste in the oil after a 20 minute run-in. D'oh.
The bore lengths were designed for a certain range of strokes, you see, figuring on how much counterweight they would need for pistons of a given size, and how long/short the rods would have to be for whatever deck height they arrived at. (And all of these variables get shifted around) In the aftermarket, they can go with longer strokes and do fancier machining to the bores than the OEMs would tolerate, and they can use heavy metal to balance the crankshafts, allowing a smaller counterweight OD. The OEM solution would be taller decks so the cylinders can be deeper so the piston skirts stay in them, and rods can be longer so the pistons don't slam into an all-iron/steel counterweight.
I’m being an ass but since someone punched the International button two pages ago why are we not discussing the IHC 549 V8? That is the single biggest piece of gasoline powered spark ignition iron I have ever pushed a clutch on. Yeah it’s a 60’s truck engine but so was everything International.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Thanks man. Good to know that they are fitting in that many cubes simply by making a bigger bigblock. I'd kinda like to meet one of these beasts in person.
Hot diggers I found some dimensions. Most of them are really quite silly.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1211sr-1005ci-godfather-big-block-engine/
Some of those gigantic, bespoke engines are drag race only. Billet block with no water jackets, make it as big as you want.
11GTCS said:I’m being an ass but since someone punched the International button two pages ago why are we not discussing the IHC 549 V8? That is the single biggest piece of gasoline powered spark ignition iron I have ever pushed a clutch on. Yeah it’s a 60’s truck engine but so was everything International.
Probably because they make 200 gross hp (around 160-170 net) and weigh 1700 lbs. If you can find an aftermarket performance supply for me, I'll build one. You know... for science.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
If you are going to build a big IH engine, I'd much rather see you do the 501ci I6.
Edit: You might need a tank to put it in.
Big 6 has a good ring to it.
In reply to 11GTCS :
Honestly? I look up IH motors for kicks every so often and I come up short; even though I live in a farming state the only IH motors I find are in still-running work vehicles or farm machines.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
To be fair, I did start with saying I was being an ass. They were getting hard to find parts for in the late 80's so the buddy that had one in a dump truck ended up buying a donor truck for the DT466 and transmission and swapping those in.
In reply to 11GTCS :
You did, and I failed to say I was also being a douche :)
GIRTHQUAKE said:Big 6 has a good ring to it.
In reply to 11GTCS :
Honestly? I look up IH motors for kicks every so often and I come up short; even though I live in a farming state the only IH motors I find are in still-running work vehicles or farm machines.
I mean, it's got HARVESTER in the name.
We had a 69 Ferd F-teen thousand with the 534 on the farm, when I was a kid. It was a little underpowered for a 40 grain trailer with a thousand bushels in it, but we stretched the frame and but a box and hoist on, and it would haul 500 bushels at 70mph and still get 8mpg.
It was a very large engine.
This story has very little to do with a Gambler car.
I've never owned or even driven anything with a big block in it. One day I'd love to experience revving a well-built big block to 7 grand.
That being said, I've dreamed of it plenty and used to drool over big block anything as a kid and it seems chevy beats everyone hands down in terms of aftermarket. It might be easy button, but why make things more difficult than you have to?
My second choice would be Jag V12, simply because the cars are practically thrown away at this point and once you fix a few things they're great engines. And they sound incredible uncorked.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Offset grind. If you are cutting down .300", in theory you can offset the journal as much as .150", for a .300" increase in stroke.
The actual amount will depend on what piston pin heights and rod lengths you are working with.
Ford 315s used to be popular in the 80s. Ford 2.3 rods in a 5.0, with just a little bit of offset grind. It wasn't enough to upset the computer but it was an easy whileyou'reinthere, comparatively speaking.
That's the same thing you do to the Jag V12. The 6.0 goes out to 7.0. ( except Honda Rods ) And can get very close to 500 cu in.
A 500ci v12? Goddamn old man, quit trying to butter me up!
Sadly as we've talked about in other threads, FB Market has been terrible recently with non-answers about possible projects and the strange current behaviors of economics in my area- really seems like everyone is either in a rush to buy OR sell, and there's just no middle ground whatsoever. Worse is that anything I'm interested in for my projects is plenty rare, or is something like a project from a GRM'er who's half the nation away (Looking at you, Funderbird). Ugh.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
That's why a JagV12 weighs 680 pounds. Sir William Lyons was looking at America where most of his sales were and as Detroit approached 500 cu in he had his original V12 ( the one used in the XJ13 ) enlarged from a max of 5 liters to go out to that size.
The block is die cast to be stronger than a sand cast engine. The forged EN40 steel crankshaft weighs 78.8 pounds compared to 21-23 pounds for a Chevy 350 (31 for a 454)
While I love the old Nail head Buick That's the first time I became aware of the two methods of power measurement. gross and Net horsepower. Gross they are allowed to remove the drag of alternators, water pumps, oil pumps, air cleaners, mufflers, etc. and adjust for air density's rarely ever seen on earth.
Net is as installed in an actual car.
GIRTHQUAKE said:A 500ci v12? Goddamn old man, quit trying to butter me up!
Sadly as we've talked about in other threads, FB Market has been terrible recently with non-answers about possible projects and the strange current behaviors of economics in my area- really seems like everyone is either in a rush to buy OR sell, and there's just no middle ground whatsoever. Worse is that anything I'm interested in for my projects is plenty rare, or is something like a project from a GRM'er who's half the nation away (Looking at you, Funderbird). Ugh.
Funny thing about that car, it's got a slightly punched out small block, but it's the biggest of the litter. 406ci baby! Also in the fall I may have a proposition for you... gotta get some ducks in a row first.
Y'all believe anything huh? 
yupididit said:Y'all believe anything huh?
Not without lots of research- besides, if I truly wanted to go fast I'd just go LS. This on the other hand, is for being loud and obnoxious which is apart of Maslow's Heierarchy of needs, along with sloppy top from a goth chick and tax evasion.
(Seriously tho, it's gonna depend on what appears and who actually responds to my messages, I'm holding out for the caddy).
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