In reply to Racebrick :
It's their job to save their company money. It's your job to prove them wrong. Start finding comps.
Don't skip the negotiation part and jump straight to the lawyers.
In reply to Racebrick :
It's their job to save their company money. It's your job to prove them wrong. Start finding comps.
Don't skip the negotiation part and jump straight to the lawyers.
I see you're in IL. Small claims court (simplified rules, not necessary to use a lawer) in IL is for <$10,000. Its relatively cheap/easy to do. I'd get as much documentation both showing their liability/fault and demonstrated value of the vehicle as well as the body shop collision estimate.
Simply filing the case against the other driver (you are suing the driver, not the insurance company), will likely grease the wheels with the insurance company and give you more leverage than the current course you're on.
Typically this is a judge trial, and if its cut and dry the judge wont be happy with the defendant as the facts unfold in your favor.
https://www.illinoislegalaid.org/legal-information/suing-someone-10000-or-less
A car like that is going to be hard to find comps for, and most adjusters aren't "car guys" so this kind of thing happens and isn't a big deal. Find cars that are comparable to yours and provide that to them.
If they do send you a check, it's absolutely fine to cash it. It won't waive your rights.
SV reX said:In reply to Racebrick :
It's their job to save their company money. It's your job to prove them wrong. Start finding comps.
Don't skip the negotiation part and jump straight to the lawyers.
I know it may sound like semantics but it's not the adjusters job to save the company money. It's their job to pay what is owed, not more and not less. For example, if their research says a car is worth $10k, they can't offer $8k. That's a MAJOR no no and the fines they would face would blow you mind. They are instructed to pay exactly what's owed.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
This is not wholly true. The insurance companies job is to protect their insured first. If you work in the office taking the call, or in the field as the adjuster, you are always looking to protect the person who pays you (that's what they taught us). That means mitigating damages (physical and monetary) in line with what the law allows. If their research shows cars average around $10k, they can look for differences and offer a lower price. It's truly a negotiation, and if they can get someone to accept the lowest price they will. They always have a range they can negotiate up to, but they won't tell you that and you'll have to fight to get top dollar.
Here's an article explaining actual cash value vs replacement cost.
https://www.progressive.com/answers/replacement-cost-vs-actual-cash-value/
just a note, I am not sticking up for the insurance company. There is a reason I left that business and it's because everything seems so backwards and went against my morals.
In reply to Hoppps :
Not sure what company you worked for, but that's not quite right. I just retired after nearly 30 years in claims, the last 20 in leadership. ACV is calculated taking mileage, condition rating, etc... A value is then determined. They can always negotiate UP from there, but never down. Ever.
Thanks for the advice, again. I sent an email back with some comparable cars, and what they have sold, or are selling for. The cars they are using are autos, and I have tried to tell them that the specific combination of this vehicle's options are what make it more valuable. Mainly the manual transmission. I have asked them to provide some comps with manual transmission, but I don't know if they are legally obligated to do so. I don't expect anything back immediately. The last time they told me to expect a call within 7 business days it took 17. When I call them it goes to voicemail.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
OK, let me reword it…
It's not the adjuster's job to offer more than the car is worth. All the tools readily available to him indicate the cars is worth $3000. Offering you $3000 doesn't make him or his company shady, or trying to screw you. It's not his job to find additional value in a unique car. It's your job to prove that.
In reply to Racebrick :
That's good. Sounds like you're on your way.
When my 7.3L F250 was totaled, they offered me $2500 (it had 600,000 miles on it). I showed them that there were no 7.3L F250s selling in the entire country that low, regardless of mileage. We also added value for the utility body that was on it, and ended up settling at $13,500.
Note: EBay was my friend. You can sort by specific details, then show only actual sold vehicles (not vehicles for sale).
Best of luck with your negotiations.
SV reX said:In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
OK, let me reword it…
It's not the adjuster's job to offer more than the car is worth. All the tools readily available to him indicate the cars is worth $3000. Offering you $3000 doesn't make him or his company shady, or trying to screw you. It's not his job to find additional value in a unique car. It's your job to prove that.
Yes, absolutely correct
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
I think our thoughts are in the same direction. My thought is that they should calculate a range, and then would offer the bottom of that range. So they would always be looking for the cheap way out, but like you said would only be able to negotiate up.
Also it's difficult to find a clean stock civic hatchback for sale. I haven't looked at FB marketplace, but I can't find anything. Does OP need help trying to find comps?
I would love some comps if you can find them. It's difficult. There was one that sold on eBay, and one for sale right now.
Is it normal to take 6 months to pay a claim like this? In a case where it is 100% their clients fault?
In reply to Racebrick :
It's not normal. But you are not their customer. As others have noted, you should have filed with your company.
My F250 claim took that long, but it wasn't inactive. I was engaged with them continuously.
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but if there are no comps it may be that the car isn't worth as much as you think it is.
Sometimes we enthusiasts overrate stuff we think is cool.
Hoppps said:In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
This is not wholly true. The insurance companies job is to protect their insured first. If you work in the office taking the call, or in the field as the adjuster, you are always looking to protect the person who pays you (that's what they taught us). That means mitigating damages (physical and monetary) in line with what the law allows. If their research shows cars average around $10k, they can look for differences and offer a lower price. It's truly a negotiation, and if they can get someone to accept the lowest price they will. They always have a range they can negotiate up to, but they won't tell you that and you'll have to fight to get top dollar.
This is ABSOLUTELY not how they trained us at State Farm. We were encouraged to pay as much as we could as quickly as we could. We often bent the rules to get people paid more and more quickly. I was the king of "1st contact closes" and my manager loved it.
Sure, it's $4K theft claim, but they have docs/police report, etc. Am I going to dick them around on ACV over an 18 month old TV they gave me a receipt for? Nope. Bang, RCV or I'll have my processor call you and order you the TV direct. They broke a window, so now that needs to be replaced (we also would replace the carpet in the room because of how difficult it is to get glass out of carpet), here is our preferred contractor. I've already taken the deductible from your property, so you won't owe them anything.
Even when I worked there in 06-07, handling claims cost the company something like $225/hr.
The main reason I left was how quickly they built up your salary and then I knew I wouldn't be able to. Although looking back, 401k AND a pension, along with other things, may have been a good idea to stay.
One of the issues is on Hondas an automatic transmission costs more, so they see autos as worth more. Them offering auto money with a slight deduct for manual is normal as far as they know, prove them wrong and you'll get what you should.
From the reviews on that insurance company....yes they are trying to screw you. 6 months on something this simple is just dragging it out hoping you'll go away.
You didnt list a lot of the specs on your car other than 5 speed, how many miles, CX/DX/LX?
Bring a trailer has quite a few hatchbacks in the sold section. Again, this insurance company isnt going to respond quickly, if ever. Get the documentation in order and go to small claims court suing the other driver and let the judge decide. The key here is that KBB or whatever valuation tool isnt accurate when you go to far out in the weeds, and it isnt an offer to sell a car. Value in sold listings from ebay and bring a trailer are real.
You are going to have to do the homework to prove what your car is worth
Looking at the Il Dept of Insurance tells the story....they suck purposely on claims when you compare them to others. They have <1pct market share and about 10pct of the state's complaints.
Consumer Complaint Reports (illinois.gov)
Microsoft Word - Consumer Complaint Ratio Report 2019.docx (illinois.gov)
In reply to eebasist :
Suing the other driver will 100% slow this down, not speed it up. Why so angry? Did an insurance company hurt you when you were little?
In reply to Steve_Jones :
Lol...i'm not sure it gets much slower than 6 months for such a basic property damage claim. If anything it puts a real timeline in place as you'll be in front of a judge within 90 days. Playing Mr Nice guy hasn't exactly worked so far, unfortunately turning up the heat on the insured will.
Hi, long time lurker, first time poster. I have no affiliation, but there is a business over on Facebook that handles situations like this, and tells all about the processes involved. Here is a cut-and-paste of how the process works.
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An appraisal clause is a clause or paragraph found in most but not all insurance policies. It is designed to be a way of reaching a settlement when there is a dispute over the amount of a loss between you and your insurance company and can be invoked by either party. The appraisal clause can be utilized when there is a dispute over the cost to repair your vehicle or the diminished value of your vehicle if you reside in a state where you can make a 1st party claim for diminished value. The appraisal clause is generally found in the “Damage to Your Auto” section of your policy. Following are the basic steps involved in the execution of the appraisal clause of most policies.
STEP 1: INVOKING YOUR APPRAISAL CLAUSE
You will write a letter to your insurance company telling them that as a result of your inability to reach a mutually agreeable settlement, you are invoking the appraisal clause of your policy. The letter should be sent by certified mail/return receipt requested.
STEP 2: SELECTION OF APPRAISERS
In the appraisal clause process, each side will select a competent appraiser to assess the loss. Each side will be responsible for paying their chosen appraiser. You should select an appraiser who is knowledgeable in the specific area that is the subject of the dispute and who is familiar with the appraisal clause process. Your selected appraiser should be able to be objective and impartial. Your appraiser should not do any work for the insurance company with whom you are having the dispute.
STEP 3: COMPLETION OF THE PROCESS
Your selected appraiser as well as the appraiser selected by your insurance company will each independently appraise the loss. The two appraiser will then communicate and discuss their findings. During this process the two appraisers will attempt to reach a mutually agreeable figure. If the two appraisers are unable to reach an agreement then the two appraisers will mutually select and agree upon a third party Umpire appraiser who will review the positions and documentation of the two primary appraisers and may also do an inspection and assessment of his own. If an umpire appraiser becomes necessary, you and your insurance company will each pay half of the cost of the umpire. Then an amount agreed upon by any two of the three appraisers will be final and binding on all parties.
In reply to eebasist :
It doesn't look all that simple to me. It would have been simple if both insurance companies had been involved, but now the company is being asked to settle with someone who isn't their customer, doesn't understand the processes, and thinks his car is worth twice what they think it is. That creates a few complications (and we don't know a lot here).
Ive been in the exact same position (including the complications), and it took a lot of time (and effort on my part)
In reply to JamieK :
I hear you, but you are several steps ahead of where this is at. The offer has just been received, and no comps contrary have been presented. They are just beginning negotiations (even though time has gone by)
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