Shortage of Auto Mechanics over the Next 5 Years

DrBoost wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

pres589 wrote:

alfadriver wrote: More people may be getting a 4 year degree, but I don't see the results for more engineers.

I've never worked for an automotive company, so grain of salt with this, but I find working on cars myself or spending time around techs in repair shops where I worked sales to be nothing like engineering. I doubt a student considering one would really think about doing the other instead.

My point was that the push toward more 4 year degrees isn't increasing the engineering pool, either.

Why do you suppose that is? From what I know, if you have the head for it, engineering is a good job and there's a need for it (right?). Are people choosing, well, easier degrees to go after or is there something else going on?

No idea. TJ and SMT371 both have good points.

But I know we are not the only ones who have tough times attracting new grads direct from schools.

In theory, I'll be having dinner with a student athlete I know who is an ME student. I'll ask him, since he's already indicated that he's not going into engineering.

To me, the whole STEM push needs to be both for a 4 year degree and a 2 year degree schools. We really need them all.

Interesting thread, and it does explain why I'm having such a hard time finding a good mechanic over here. By now we're basically buying vehicles based on who can work on them, and I still do more work on the various cars and bikes than I really want to.

It's interesting to compare how things work over here with what I was used to in the UK - lots of small 1-2 person shops who did good work (mostly) and just charged by the hour. That said, despite the lower labour rates over there, people still weren't that willing to pay for good work. A FoF who is a very good mechanic and fabricator ended up closing his shop and went to work for the RAC (one of the AAA equivalents over there) doing breakdown work because he just couldn't make it work financially otherwise.

Re wages - it seems to be the new hotness right now to keep positions open rather than pay more to fill them. Very similar in my industry (IT) for the stuff that doesn't get outsourced.

NEALSMO wrote: Almost everybody that's smart enough to be a good tech is smart enough to stay out of the industry.

This. So many times over. I can sit at a desk relaxed & reading GRM and make 100k and only turn wrenches when I want to on my own toys (and not ruin my passion)... instead of killing yourself trying to get there in 25 years. Making money is easy, hate to say it. Just need to be willing to network and move around. If you're willing to put even a tiny amount of effort into your schooling, networking, or just working hard, there's simply no reason to go into this industry. The money just isn't there and the work isn't fun.

I have a book recommendation for those still reading, it's called "Shop Class as Soulcraft." Eye opening tale of a guy who grew up as an electrician, got his PhD and desk job, then ended up repairing motorcycles for a living. Trust me, pick it up. Incredibly insightful to the value of actual work.

Aside from all this, I find it easy to find side work for $50/hr cash. I don't love it but it's easy side money. Pays for the toys though...

I did it for ten years and got out five years ago.

Most of my points have already been touched on. You invest a lot of money to not make much. Ive never met a tech making 100k, but i do live in an area with a low cost of living so we typically have lower wages.

Its stressful. The money goes up and down. The customers think you are trying to rob them. The benefits are weak. Some actually believe you just plug in a computer and that fixes it. Management treats you like a second class citizen. Society views you as the shade tree grease monkey.

I left and got a factory job. Better pay, better benefits, no personal investing, and when i leave at night i dont give the place a second thought until i show back up in the morning.

alfadriver wrote: More people may be getting a 4 year degree, but I don't see the results for more engineers. But we've seen a decline in techs for the better part of the last decade.

I know 6 years ago there was an issue with engineering being farmed out to Engineering Centers overseas.

The problem with Engineering is that I find the salary rarely lines up with what you are told it would be in College or you have to job hop to get it.

UTI grad here. What's really missing is a true apprenticeship track in automotive repair. I wouldn't mind making 15/hr if I was under a master tech and worked up 2-3 years until I was on flat rate. At independent shops the boss is running such a tight ship he can't afford to pay an apprentice. At dealers you're either a quick lube grease monkey or flat rate and they'll show you the door after a few too many comebacks.

There has to be a middle ground though. Tech school grads don't know it all but they can't take $30k in debt to learn a trade and just be thrown in the lube pit either. Bring a guy up through the ranks in a structured way and he'll stick around. Throw him in the deep end he'll just drown.

Currently I'm working part time in another service industry with a friend and doing car stuff on the side and weekends. I net $150 for F/R brake jobs, $250 for GM LS motor water pumps, $200 for front hubs. Easy money.

FlightService wrote: The problem with Engineering is that I find the salary rarely lines up with what you are told it would be in College or you have to job hop to get it.

Yes, this. I'm an Engineer and while starting salaries seem to match expectations, if you stay for 5-10 years in one place you fall behind FAST. So much so that you can end up getting less than new hires (I did).

Quit, traveled the world, came back to a 30k raise. Didn't even job hob, just exited and re-entered. Bizarre.

gearheadmb wrote: Its stressful. The money goes up and down. The customers think you are trying to rob them. The benefits are weak. Some actually believe you just plug in a computer and that fixes it. Management treats you like a second class citizen. Society views you as the shade tree grease monkey.

Unfortunately this is very true.

Shop Class as Soulcraft is my bible. That guy hits on so many realities of the industry and the craft.

For decades I could work as a tech professionally and then come home and work on my toys. It was an easy distinction between the two without burnout. Only recently due to my health (bad neck and back) I don't have the will to play with my projects on weekends and evenings.

Having hired many techs and ran a few shops, all i need for a tech is someone with a good attitude and a decent level of intelligence.

The mechanical stuff is easy to teach, the vast majority of problems experienced with techs for me has been attitude and work ethic related, and my best guys started out super green.

Entry level positions do not pay enough in most cases for me to think most voaction schools are worth it, in the auto repair industry.

I will say good techs with experience are generally very hard to find because they are normally taken care of and rarely looking for work, at least in my experience.

Best ive seen in my arm of the auto industry is mid to low 30s a flag hour with the guys regularly running 50 to 60 hours a week, to lazy to do the math.

Most good techs i know get out of the industry or move to a admin or management position

alfadriver wrote:

DrBoost wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

pres589 wrote:

alfadriver wrote: More people may be getting a 4 year degree, but I don't see the results for more engineers.

I've never worked for an automotive company, so grain of salt with this, but I find working on cars myself or spending time around techs in repair shops where I worked sales to be nothing like engineering. I doubt a student considering one would really think about doing the other instead.

My point was that the push toward more 4 year degrees isn't increasing the engineering pool, either.

Why do you suppose that is? From what I know, if you have the head for it, engineering is a good job and there's a need for it (right?). Are people choosing, well, easier degrees to go after or is there something else going on?

No idea. TJ and SMT371 both have good points. But I know we are not the only ones who have tough times attracting new grads direct from schools. In theory, I'll be having dinner with a student athlete I know who is an ME student. I'll ask him, since he's already indicated that he's not going into engineering. To me, the whole STEM push needs to be both for a 4 year degree and a 2 year degree schools. We really need them all.

As someone who was a mechanical technician for 10 years before becoming a mechanical engineer 8 years ago, I can tell you that if I had to do it again, I don't think I would have wasted my time getting my bachelor.

When I was a tech, I had a good paying technical job that required 40 hours of work. Since I have become an engineer, I am doing less and less technical work and more administrative/managing. I work around 45-50 hours everyweek with a lot more stress and responsabilities. And if I had kept my technical job, I would probably have the same salary that I have now.

And it seems to be the same thing for all my friends. Those 100K jobs in engineering require a MBA (with garanties you will never touch technical work again) or a very specialised job which can make you un-employable if your post is cut.

I don't know if it's still true but they use to say that 90% of engineers in North America did management work that isn't necessarely related to engineering.

fanfoy wrote: Those 100K jobs in engineering require a MBA (with garanties you will never touch technical work again) or a very specialised job which can make you un-employable if your post is cut.

Since when? I work in aerospace and 100k is a normal pay rate for a ~8+ year experience engineer. Lots more experience (20+) lands you in the 150 range. And a lot more $$$ if you're willing to contract (very tempting). No MBA, all technical stuff and not specialized at all, just Stress Analysis or Design work.

In reply to Blaise:

Local differences maybe? Locally, the average wage for an 8 years experience mechanical engineer is around 75-80K (from an very reliable source). And around 80% (don't remember the exact number) of the engineers making over 100k have a MBA.

Where are you located? Might be time for a change of scenery.

fanfoy wrote: In reply to Blaise: Local differences maybe? Locally, the average wage for an 8 years experience mechanical engineer is around 75-80K (from an very reliable source). And around 80% (don't remember the exact number) of the engineers making over 100k have a MBA. Where are you located? Might be time for a change of scenery.

I agree about location. I'm sure engineers who would do my job clear 150k in silicon valley. But with the cost of living as good as it is here in SE MI, our salaries are not that good.

But we do have plenty of just BS degree'd engineers that make over $100k.

Probably one of the issues that make it hard to attract people is that they don't understand cost of living. $100k here lets you live really comfortably in a 100k home that probably costs 5-10x that in California. But they see the salary difference, and think they can do better there.

Still, I'm fine with doing the desk work and not getting too dirty. But I do work directly on cars, so there is that.

fanfoy wrote: In reply to Blaise: Local differences maybe? Locally, the average wage for an 8 years experience mechanical engineer is around 75-80K (from an very reliable source). And around 80% (don't remember the exact number) of the engineers making over 100k have a MBA. Where are you located? Might be time for a change of scenery.

Philadelphia, Seattle, been offered jobs in Hartford CT and middle of nowhere Mojave Desert CA. My friends in Melbourne FL, Savannah GA, St. Louis, and Wichita are all doing the same. LA too.

Maybe it is location related but in my experience I haven't seen anybody try to offer under 100 once you've got some skills. This is assuming you're willing to jump ship. If you stay in one place 8 years... yeah. You'll get 85 if you're lucky.

Opti wrote: The mechanical stuff is easy to teach, the vast majority of problems experienced with techs for me has been attitude and work ethic related, and my best guys started out super green.

THIS.

That's interesting, seems like it would be beneficial to pay your own well and promote internally rather than constantly having to orient people to a new work environment.

In reply to turtl631:

Like anything else, people want as much as they can get for as little as possible in return. Employers typically are no different. If you're doing a good job for X dollars/year you might expect reasonable incremental raises as a reward. But another company will often pay you more to entice you to leave. That's why we have a growing culture of job hoppers. They stay at one company until the promotions stop coming, and then move to another employer and start the cycle over again. In return, employers are hesitant to reward employees handsomely because they assume that the employee will be somewhere else before long and it's not worth the investment. It becomes a chicken vs egg argument.

In reply to fanfoy:

I'm sorry that you're disappointed with your career switch. Coming from a family of trades-people-turned-engineers (my uncle: electrician turned EE, father: carpenter turned ME), this is the pain I've heard my whole life: that they don't actually get to do any engineering work and mostly work on spreadsheets. One of the main reasons I didn't go into the field. However, I still think that you'll have better prospects in the long run. Also, yes, lots of BS'd engineers making 100-120k, just depends where you live I think.