Should I get a different tow vehicle

So I have a 16' enclosed racecar trailer that I tow with my 2003 Dodge Hemi 1500 Crew Cab. Due to wind resistance (mostly) gas mileage is around 8-10 mpg. I have considered stepping up to a 3/4 ton or bigger Diesel (12-15 mpg) but since Diesel costs about 45-80 cents more per gallon, the cost savings are minimal, especially since I will have to fork out more $$ to buy the truck. The question for the crew is, should I? Or alternatively, what can I do to increase the mileage on my Hemi. The motor runs good, the truck gets 13-14 when not towing, so if I can get to 12 towing I'd keep it.

I doubt much can be done to gain milage in your current truck.......buying a differently designed trailer would make more of a difference. The biggest bonus with going diesel is you don't lose much value.

Other than that, I've got nothing for you.

Buy an open trailer. Towing a wall down the road doesn't do much to help gas mileage.

Towing my 20' enclosed with my van netted me 8-10mpg.

Towing with my dad's diesel Dodge netted me 12.

My van was cheap, the Dodge Diesel isn't.

The van is gone and I've been towing a open trailer with a Roadmaster. It's getting 13-15mpg.

keep in mind the maintenance and upkeep of a diesel is a lot more than a gas job too. An intake and exhaust might get you better performance and better mileage. It isn't uncommon with the hemis at least.

Toyman01 wrote: Buy an open trailer.

Not really an option as Security is an issue. Lot's of expensive equipment on board.

Diesels really don't cost that much to maintain. No spark plugs or ignition equipment at all. Longer oil change intervals. You get dinged on fluid changes, but they aren't bad if you do them yourself. It's not like you can crawl under these things.

I'd go diesel simply because they tow better and hold their value better. My F-250 averages between 20-22mpg driving around empty and 16 mpg towing our loaded 20' gooseneck horsetrailer.

what about a nose cone on the trailer?

It is a v-nose already. I'm thinking a topper for the truck or a wing. Maybe changing out to skinnier taller tires too.

how many miles a year do you tow?

Not that many to justify a big expense. My truck is probably worth within a grand or two of what I'll be trading for. The truck is just an extra vehicle around the house used mostly for towing and occasional Honey-Do jobs. I might tow 8-10k per year. Cost is one aspect but ease of towing is the main reason to change.

maintenance is much more expensive on the diesel. I own one. Its about triple the cost for oil and filter changes, plus the cost of regular fuel filter changes. On top of that, turbos and EGR coolers and all that are expensive. And none of that fails on gas engines. So to say "oh no spark plugs or ignition equipment" as a cost saving= fail fail fail fail. Instead of an ignition module you get awesome things like injection pumps and fuel injector control modules.

You didn't say what year diesel you would theoretically replace it with, but a brand new diesel in any brand starts around 50k and up. Its a bit ridiculous. And the new ones all have complication emissions equipment, separate cooling systems for the emissions equipment, and diesel exhaust fluid. An older diesel is sorta a gamble unless you know how its maintained.

If you somehow blow the motor in your gas engined dodge you can probably find a replacement for $1500 or less if you shop for a while. Blow up a cummins and you won't find one for less than $3k.

Towing mileage will be better with the diesel, but as you mentioned, diesel is more expensive to start with. My 6.0 pstroke excursion gets 12-14 towing heavy loads (6k or more) and can get 18-20 on the highway unloaded. but, with a diesel, you have the added costs of E rated tires, larger more expensive brakes (which also help you stop better, so its a plus and a minus), etc.

everything is a mixed bag. that size trailer doesn't "need" a 3/4 or heavier truck to tow, and half ton trucks are a whole lot nicer and more comfortable to drive around unloaded compared to a 3/4 and up.

And as far as deprecition, it hits diesels and gas engines about the same for a long time. You pay more for the diesel when you buy it, you get more out of it when you sell it. it tapers off a bit around the 12-15 year old mark, and then when you are looking at old IDI fords and cummins and stuff, you reach a bottom line for the diesels, about 2k for a ratty one... but thats vs 1k for a ratty gas engine one. So its not a huge difference.
A new diesel is typically around an $8k premium over gas. It won't save that much in fuel over its lifetime, especially combined with higher maintenance, increased fuel cost per gallon, and diesel exhaust fluid.

It will tow better, have more power, etc.

When it blows up it will be significantly more expensive to repair.

In the end its up to you if the pros outweigh the cons or the other way around.

if my excursion ever goes to the junkyard in the sky i will probably replace it with something more practical to drive every day but that can still tow a smaller trailer, like an F150, and buy an older pre emissions era diesel pickup to do any serious towing with. Like that crew cab dually powerstroke that sold for $1900 I posted in the classifieds section.

We've hardly had to put any money other than filter/oil changes on our farm's '99 psd.....ball joints, warn lockouts, and 3 sets of tires thus far since new. Turbo was replaced under warranty though. Otherwise, nothing abnormal or "expensive" It gets 17-19 unloaded and 14-15 pulling our 7x14 enclosed down the interstate.

I've also been looking at the decision to get a better tow vehicle or trailer. I now believe that choosing a suitable trailer will end up being the best choice.

The BRE Aerovault trailer is very interesting but a $24k trailer is hard for me to justify. I'm now considering several different used low height aluminum trailers including Trailex, and Montrose. It's my understanding that a lower height and or slant nose gives much better results than a V nose.

In reply to andrave:

All true and good points. My truck is comfortable, in good shape and has just over 100k. It's reliable too, so I should probably work on some fuel saving ideas like Aero, rolling resistance and tuning. I also have a buddy who wants to port and polish my Throttle Body, claims it will add power and efficiency. Maybe if I can do that reasonably I can grab another 2-3 mpg at which point the tradeoff wouldn't be worth it.

In reply to Chet:

Amen, 24k for that is ridiculous. At least I can stand in mine. I think the V-nose is hardly noticeable.

What tires do you have on your RAM. If it's the big 20" wheels, I would try to get those low resistance tires they now have for trucks in a narrower size than you currently have. We had those tires installed on the company RAM (an 05) and we saw a 3L/100km (from 20 to 17, sorry don't know how much that is in MPG) improvement. And that truck was mostly driven in town. I'm sure the difference would have been greater if we did more highway.

One of the previous tow vehicles I had was 454 'Burb with throttle body FI but prior to vortex. Lousy gas mileage under any circumstances but it could be improved. Keep it tuned up and add a wing in front of the trailer to help break up the air; I recall a deep spoiler under the front bumper too.

I towed my 20ft Wells Cargo with two different 'Burbs, two Expeditions and V-10 Excursion. Pulling the big white wall down the road will drop the fuel mileage 3-5 mpg. I couldnt ever justify the diesel penalty and just accepted the benefits of an enclosed trailer.

andrave wrote: maintenance is much more expensive on the diesel. I own one. Its about triple the cost for oil and filter changes, plus the cost of regular fuel filter changes. On top of that, turbos and EGR coolers and all that are expensive. And none of that fails on gas engines. So to say "oh no spark plugs or ignition equipment" as a cost saving= fail fail fail fail.

I politely disagree. After nearly a decades experience in fleet maintenance, I say bullsheet.

People fail to take resale value into consideration. Regardless of how much you spend on maintenance or turbos or injectors, start to finish a diesel keeps much more money in your pocket. You save a tiny bit on fuel cost. You spend more on maintenance like oil changes and fuel filters, but when you compare purchase cost to resale cost, its a no-brainer.

A 260k cummins that sold for $15.5k
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-Dodge-Ram-Laramie-Cummins-Crew-Cab-4x4-NO-RESERVE-/281044873334?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item416f947076

A nearly-identical 200k Dodge with a Hemi that sold for $5000. 60k fewer miles and its still sold for about 70% less than the diesel. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DODGE-RAM-SLT-2500-4-X-4-QUAD-CAB-HEAVY-DUTY-/251203781574?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a7ce983c6

If you ONLY look at the cost of oil changes and turbos, you'll think you're losing money. If you look at all of the factors, diesel wins every time.

In our fleet, the diesel trucks put WAY more money back in our pockets compared to gas. We actually had some on which we made a profit because we took insurance checks for fender benders and sold them for more than our total investment. We had a few that were losers (all 6.0L Fords).

Total investment (on the average) from buy to sell, diesel wins big time. My daily driver is a 99 E350 with a 7.3L powerstroke. I enjoy 20+ mpg while commuting, I can pull 10k lbs without batting an eyelash, and I know that (despite the $70 oil changes) I can sell it for almost as much as I paid for it regardless of mileage.

In reply to TxCoyote:

In 2012 we replaced our 2002 RAM Quad cab LWB V10 4x4 with a 2012 Sprinter 144" WB hightop Crew.

Both are used primarily as toy haulers...to the Vt mountains for hillclimbs and to the Outer Banks for windsurfing.

The Ram used to get 12-13 unless towing then 8-9 on regular gas. Tried everything I could to improve mileage including 100% synthetics in the drivetrain and low rolling resistance tires. Nothing made much of a difference.

The Sprinter gets about 22 normally and 17 towing on diesel. These numbers are on a new vehicle and word is it will improve as the engine and drivetrain get some more miles.

Ram was pretty low maintenance cost wise. Annual 8 qt synthetic oil change, very few problems.

Sprinter has required nothing so far but the potential is there for significant costs depending on how I treat it...I read idling, short trips and lugging the engine are the worst things you can do to one of these - very hard on the DPR and EGR - so I avoid both.

I must say the Sprinter is a much better vehicle in which to travel. Easier to drive (even my wife likes driving it and she hated the RAM), better handling, smoother riding, much more space inside and almost twice the cruising range on a tank of fuel.

In reply to curtis73:

Interesting you say that Curtis. The company I used to work for had close to a 1000 E Series vans on the road. They wouldn't buy diesels because the maintenance costs were too high and over the long run, 150K+, cost more money than the gas vans including the resale. That's according to the regional fleet manager when I asked why we were driving gas vans.

I've also noticed that UPS, around here, has switched back to gas engines. Ten years ago they switched most of the trucks around here to diesels. Within the last 2, most of them are going back to gas. Guaranteed USP knows, to the penny, what a truck costs to run in their fleet.

Age and trim package is going to be some of the price difference in the two Dodges you posted. An '03 SLT vs an '06 Laramie.

Don't get me wrong, towing with a diesel is by far better than with most gas engines. More torque lower in the RPM range is a wonderful thing. I'd much rather tow with a diesel. Buying a premium priced truck to save a couple of MPG just doesn't add up. Especially for a vehicle that sits most of the time.

To the OP, the question to ask is do you want a new truck. If the answer is yes and you can swing the price for a diesel, go get one. Don't do it to save money, because it just might not add up. Your premium resale is off set by the premium buy in. Fuel is more expensive as well as maintenance. Though if you ever tow with a diesel you'll never want to go back to a gas tow rig.

UPS doesn't sell their used fleet vehicles. They're stripped of any remaining good parts and scrapped.

In reply to DaveEstey:

Correct. What they appear to be doing around here is stripping the diesels out and installing gas engines.

DaveEstey wrote: UPS doesn't sell their used fleet vehicles. They're stripped of any remaining good parts and scrapped.

Sounds like what I do with personal vehicles.

I'm not interested in how much something is worth to the next guy, I'm more worried about how much something is worth to me. It's my money, after all.

(I'm a little saddened that a big honkin' truck towing a barn door on wheels would STILL get better towing economy than the 4.7 Durango towing an open trailer. Displacement IS your friend when towing!)

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to DaveEstey: Correct. What they appear to be doing around here is stripping the diesels out and installing gas engines.

They're actually doing engine swaps and not just replacing the fleet? Interesting. That can't be very cheap labor-wise.

BTW - You know the Isuzu cab-over trucks that are so popular? A couple years ago, I saw a piggyback shipment of cab and chassis models. All of them had what looked like Chevy 6.0 gas engines in them.

I just wish there was an easy way to improve the towing capability of my 4.6 F150 ... and the around town gas milage