Silly dealerships.....

I only remember Hyundais having that. At the time, they needed it to repair their reputation.

Ranger50 wrote: What would you do if you knew every month you would be crapping 10k a month minimum to keep the doors open?

Get a different job if it doesn't make the money to pay the bills. Screwing people (in my mind) is not a legitimate business model.

fritzsch wrote: I guess its kinda unrelated, but do 10yr 100000mi warranties exist still? I remember seeing them for most cars but now i only see like 3 years

Heh. That's a powertrain only warranty. Some used cars such as Mercedes will extend a warranty to 100K (called CPO, or Certified Pre Owned) but even that means an inspection, any repairs found at inspection prior to sale are not covered, paint/wipers/chrome/etc are not covered and best of all: there's a surcharge for it. That means it's actually a 'mechanical breakdown insurance policy', not a 'warranty'.

As a tech I wish the service writers would do more stuff like that. Why have a trained technician waste his/her time putting something on that the customer or writer could take care of. If a tech needs to touch a car for any reason, a repair order needs to be written, the car needs to be inspected, and I HAVE to check and fill the tires. So now that 10 second job has turned into 20 minutes. I either want to get paid or just have the writer slap that bitch on and send them down the road.

If the customer can't handle it on thier own, well then it's time to pay someone that can

Curmudgeon wrote:

fritzsch wrote: I guess its kinda unrelated, but do 10yr 100000mi warranties exist still? I remember seeing them for most cars but now i only see like 3 years

Heh. That's a powertrain only warranty. Some used cars such as Mercedes will extend a warranty to 100K (called CPO, or Certified Pre Owned) but even that means an inspection, any repairs found at inspection prior to sale are not covered, paint/wipers/chrome/etc are not covered and best of all: there's a surcharge for it. That means it's actually a 'mechanical breakdown insurance policy', not a 'warranty'.

I'm a big believer in CPO "warranties" for expensive used cars. Sure, you pay a price premium (about $1500 for the Wife's Volvo XC90 and about $2k for my 750Li) but that peace of mind is worth it. Besides, BMW paid about $15k in repairs on the 750Li under the CPO warranty, so I won that bet Jury's still out for 2 more years/40k miles on the Volvo.

In reply to HiTempguy:

Why does the dealership owner need to get a new job? I do agree that "screwing a customer" is a bad model, but to blankly assume the customer is right is wrong. Sorry, I can't find fault the dealership for a customer error. It sure could have been handled way better, but we only know the basics from the "screwed" customer. We don't know if she pulled up really for the service lane or not, the place was busy at the time, or maybe a slimeball SA interception.

Oh and 10k was a lowball guess on operating expenses. The very basic model is parts and service keeps the doors open and sales are gravy for the owner. The one little dealership I worked at in parts, grossed roughly 150k/month. Given that we made about 25% overall markup, we end up with 37.5k/month. Out of that we have to pay for the property, taxes on the property, utilities, outstanding loans, salaries, floorplan, if financed, or new cars outright, manufacturer licensing fees, manufacturer mandated drop shipped without notice special tools, etc....

pigeon wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

fritzsch wrote: I guess its kinda unrelated, but do 10yr 100000mi warranties exist still? I remember seeing them for most cars but now i only see like 3 years

Heh. That's a powertrain only warranty. Some used cars such as Mercedes will extend a warranty to 100K (called CPO, or Certified Pre Owned) but even that means an inspection, any repairs found at inspection prior to sale are not covered, paint/wipers/chrome/etc are not covered and best of all: there's a surcharge for it. That means it's actually a 'mechanical breakdown insurance policy', not a 'warranty'.

I'm a big believer in CPO "warranties" for expensive used cars. Sure, you pay a price premium (about $1500 for the Wife's Volvo XC90 and about $2k for my 750Li) but that peace of mind is worth it. Besides, BMW paid about $15k in repairs on the 750Li under the CPO warranty, so I won that bet Jury's still out for 2 more years/40k miles on the Volvo.

I was talking with my brother (who at that time was selling for a dealership with lots of companies) and my cousin, who just took a directors position at the company that backs most of the extended warranties. We all agreed that the $1000 for a Fusion or Camry was definitely a ripoff, but the $7500 on the Range Rover would probably be a good idea.

CJ is right, up to a point. There's times when such things need to go in the shop, for instance if I look down and see a smoked headlight connector I turn that over to a tech immediately.

It's a dice roll at that point, there may or may not be an upsell coming. Checking the tires and fluids is a PITA BUT: doing that as a freebie makes Mr or Mrs Customer think 'geez, these guys care whether I live or die'.

And you are right, if they can't handle it on their own they need to pony up. But, as I said, to zap someone for $90 to replace a fuel cap will just about guarantee they will never return. For instance I won't go back to the local Doc In A Box because those bastards hit me with an additional $9 'after 5PM fee' on top of the regular $99.00. I hope they spent that $9 wisely because it cost them my business forever.

Conversely if you call me on the weekend, or I come in at 10pm and open up my office to get you out of pain, you better be prepared to pay me my $200 "after hours" charge on top of the treatment charges. I get to have a life too ya know.

That is, unless you're a really nice person and bring my and my staff breakfast/lunch/baked goods the next day.

A number of good points have been brought up in this thread, but the only way a performance pay service department will change in a positive way is to pay everyone by the hour (NO bumps). When this happens customers WILL be treated far better.

I use to work at a small shop and we were NEVER slow everyday we would be busy and one of the main reasons was everyone was paid by the hour. This was one of the key ingredients that allowed the shop to do so well, no one was worried about what job was next or how bad it was and prevented techs from having to have a "60 hour day" in other words boning people over.

I could go on and on about this but I am taking Hitemps advice and getting out.

Ok I am going to get off my soap box and go to class.

Paul B

The $19.95 oil changes and free wiper blades are opportunities for upsell. At the Mazda dealer I was at, most minor parts like gas caps were done at my pleasure at no charge. If you bought the part...

Most customers were regulars and I'd take care of them. I was hourly.

Boston Post Rd in Milford was expensive real estate.

docwyte wrote: Conversely if you call me on the weekend, or I come in at 10pm and open up my office to get you out of pain, you better be prepared to pay me my $200 "after hours" charge on top of the treatment charges. I get to have a life too ya know. That is, unless you're a really nice person and bring my and my staff breakfast/lunch/baked goods the next day.

Ya know, I can understand that. But the rest of the story on my deal: the Doc In A Box has normal hours of 8AM-7PM. I had come by at 2:30 PM, one car in the parking lot and two people in the waiting room, was told 3 hour wait. I come back at 5:05, sign in, get seen for ~10 minutes, $99.00 plus a $9.00 'after 5' charge. I guaran damn tee you that if Mr MD brought his car to the dealer at 5:05 with normal operating hours of 7:30-7:00 and I hit him for an 'after 5' fee he'd have disemboweled me on the spot.

Curmudgeon wrote: donebrokeit, you are exactly right. Techs have gotten the short end of the stick for far too long. The manufacturers have squeezed the warranty labor guides to the point where it's insane.

Hit the nail square on the head.

Could not have said it better myself.

Ah flat rate yes

Donebrokeit wrote: A number of good points have been brought up in this thread, but the only way a performance pay service department will change in a positive way is to pay everyone by the hour (NO bumps). When this happens customers WILL be treated far better. I use to work at a small shop and we were NEVER slow everyday we would be busy and one of the main reasons was everyone was paid by the hour. This was one of the key ingredients that allowed the shop to do so well, no one was worried about what job was next or how bad it was and prevented techs from having to have a "60 hour day" in other words boning people over. I could go on and on about this but I am taking Hitemps advice and getting out. Ok I am going to get off my soap box and go to class. Paul B

Spot on...flat rate SUCKS!

sethmeister4 wrote:

Cone_Junky wrote: As a tech I wish the service writers would do more stuff like that. Why have a trained technician waste his/her time putting something on that the customer or writer could take care of. If a tech needs to touch a car for any reason, a repair order needs to be written, the car needs to be inspected, and I HAVE to check and fill the tires. So now that 10 second job has turned into 20 minutes. I either want to get paid or just have the writer slap that bitch on and send them down the road. If the customer can't handle it on thier own, well then it's time to pay someone that can

Also spot on.

Okay, nobody's charging me anything (I already paid for the dealer-installed options)... But is there any sane reason they've got me sitting here for an hour to 1:15 to install an auto-dimming mirror? I think the mount stays put (no playing with adhesives), which sounds like a five minute job to me...

There's no telling. Sometimes the harness is preinstalled for stuff like that, sometimes it's not.

Plus BCM flash time...Which could be 10 min or 1.5hr.

dculberson wrote:

Ranger50 wrote:

Feedyurhed wrote: Dealerships...........they have no soul.

What would you do if you knew every month you would be crapping 10k a month minimum to keep the doors open?

Treat my customers better so they would continue to be customers? I spend way more than that to keep my doors open and I don't nickel and dime my customers to death. We do a lot of stuff for free that we could charge them hundreds of dollars for. I'm not in the auto business, but it's just good business in any industry to keep your customers happy and to treat them with fairness, honesty, and respect. $37.50 to install a gas cap is none of those things. Claiming the customer "deserved it" makes your case even weaker.

Thank you and very well put dculberson. I too run a small business and it also costs more than 10K to keep the doors open per month. The only way to grow is to give good service at a good price. Keep your current customers coming back and get referrals from them for new ones. It only makes good sense.

Nobody would go to a bar and pay $40.00 for a beer because the bar has high over head and needs the money to keep the doors open. They would just walk out and never come back.

minor analogy: I work weekends at a ski shop. One of the things we sell is Yakima and Thule roof racks for cars. We always offer to help customers put the racks on their cars (even the big cargo boxes), because most customers can't seem to figure out even that simple job (or are not tall enough, or not strong enough, or whatever), even though it is a liability possibility. We don't have to do this (per our corporate management), but we always do,. no charge, usually in 20-degree winter weather. A few years back while helping a customer put a rack on, one of the employees somehow put a scratch in the roof of a new Minivan with temp tags still on it. Customer didn't see him do it, but he fessed up to it anyhow. Customer was a bit annoyed, but didn't make a big deal. 2 days later the customer came back and bought 4 sets of skis for his family, and went and found the tech that scratched the car and gave him a $20, saying "sorry, I was upset and forgot to give this to you. If I had put the rack on, there would be 10 scratches on the car, so thanks."

Customers appreciate service without getting screwed.

Our ski shop has been in business since the 60s, because the managers and owners have always realized that taking care of the customer and not screwing them will bring them back over and over again to spend money. Screwing them once may get money now, but they'll be looking online or elsewhere next time around.

--

Two local dealers here will never get a cent of my money for future purchases, due to being scheisty and unhelpful with warranty service on NEW cars bought from them. I'll drive an extra 20 or 30 miles and go someplace else.

--

Dealers and shops are fully justified in charging an hourly rate to do work that takes time, or is difficult to do, or whatever. Hell, we charge $50 to tune a ski, which takes a grand total of about 10 minutes. But a little bit of free help, free advice, or taking care of the customer without money involved will go along way to bring that customer back. Whether that is throwing in some advice about taking care of skis, or throwing in a free wax, or installing someone's gas cap that takes 5 seconds.

something else related:

A few weeks ago I stopped by a local BMW dealer to pick up 4 little bolts that I needed and couldn't find elsewhere easily.

When I walked in, the parts guy went and got them and then rang them up. They came up to $12 or so. I was like "whoa, that's alot for four little bolts!" Then he was like "oh, whoops, that's what we charge for insurance repairs and full jobs. Let me see how much I can adjust that price down. How about $3.50?"

At the $12, I decided I would not be buying parts from this dealer again, ever. Or anything else.

Once he changed it, now I will be sure to make the extra drive and pay a couple bucks more than online to support the business if I need certain parts, or if I ever buy a new BMW. He lost $8 on the transaction by not screwing me. He'll make alot more than $8 than me in the future now.

Curmudgeon wrote: There's no telling. Sometimes the harness is preinstalled for stuff like that, sometimes it's not.

Ding ding ding!

I didn't realize it would be wired in; I figured it would just have a battery, and the "installation" would be "undo grub screw; slide out; slide new mirror in; tighten grub screw". I suspect the harness was there. They took 45 minutes in the end. Wish I'd said 'yes' to the complimentary car wash instead of turning it down when I thought they were going to put me into the jaws of rush hour...

No complaints in the end. Wish they might've told me more about it, but I'm sure explaining exactly what they're going to do is a waste of their time 95% of their time...

When the surveys go out to customers about their repairs, generally 1 question is 'considerate of your time', basically 'they realize your time is important'. That is a loaded question; sometimes people will walk in, say 'fix so and so, I'm on my lunch hour' and the service advisor has the uncomfortable job of letting them know there's not much chance it's not going to happen. In a lot of cases, they will say 'then just tell me what's wrong with it so I can come back later' and again the SA has to let them know that's probably not a good idea, since the diagnostics are generally the biggest slice of the time pie. That's called 'managing expectations'.

Way back when people were more understanding of this, now they whip out their iBerry and show you where someone on the internetz yO! had what they perceive to be the same problem fixed in 3 minutes with a piece of baling wire. Unrealistic expectations.

Curmudgeon wrote: Way back when people were more understanding of this, now they whip out their iBerry and show you where someone on the internetz yO!

I don't think that people were ever more understanding.

They were just too lazy to go home and write a letter to each and every person on earth. Now, as soon as someone thinks something - the whole internet gets it with no filter or perspective.