Trying to decide on an engine to stuff into my TR4. I'm considering ~1972ish Small Block Chevy (350 and carbed, but with HEI).
I think I can make the length and width work with the right amount of cutting. But one requirement of this project, is NOT cutting or modifying the hood.
I have 25 inches of total height from Bottom of frame rails to bottom of hood.
TLDR: How tall is a SBC and can I get it down to 25 inches total height?
If nobody beats me to it I'll try to measure the one I have out on the ground when I get home tomorrow. I'm not seeing 25 inches tall unless it has something like an LT1 intake and a very short distributor cap
One site with dimensions: http://www.enginefactory.com/chevdimensions.htm I'd check multiple sources to get a consensus. Of course, things like a high rise intake or different carbs will make a difference.
I know that 302 Fords fit in very small spaces.
GM LS1/LS6
Width: 26 inches wide Length: 28 inches Height: 25 inches Weight: 425 pounds
My initial thought (before looking at the engine) was that I could just do a dry sump to reduce the height. But that's a no-go because the flywheel and transmission are then the lowest point. (which on this engine, is the same plane as the bottom of the stock oil pan)
I should say that I'm open to shortest intake manifold/ carb/ distributor/ air cleaner combination to pull this off.
In reply to Indy-Guy:
I'll try to remember to measure mine tomorrow. Probably can't get much shorter than it with a carb. I agree with the TPI/LT1 suggestion though, as that would give you another ~1" of clearance.
Thanks for the other suggestions (LS1 / LT1 / Ford Small Block), I may have to go one of those routes eventually, but I already have this running engine transmission combo in a nearly free truck I acquired. If it can't get short enough, I'll have to sell or trade for something that can.
Oh and bonus points if this can be kept budget friendly: because Challenge Car.
Helped my dad pull the engine out of his TR-4 vintage racer once. Are you sure you can only have 25 inches? I remember the valve cover being very tall on that tractor motor.
Went outside and got some measurements with a tape measure. Not very precise (+/- ~1.5-2"), so look at them more like ballpark figures. 1965 283, 2bbl intake with Rochester 2GC, 2bbl to 4bbl air cleaner adapter(~1") and a 0" drop base air cleaner. Please excuse the poor lighting, etc.
From the ground:
Ground to bottom of the pan:
Can get more measurements(maybe more precise, I'll try) tomorrow if you like. There's a 4.3 V6(3/4 of an SBC) shortblock in the shop and my dad's '64 Chevy II has a 355 that I could measure as well. Hope this helps.
Chart for popular American V8 engine dimensions:
I think you'll find that (as much as I dislike them) a Ford Windsor is smaller and lighter than a SBC.
It can be done, but I'm not sure if you can get away without any hood mods. Ted Lathrop's car is exceptionally well done, it's a TR-6, but nearly identical to a TR4 under the skin. This was obviously way over Challenge budget, but it may give you ideas:
I've driven this car, and its entertaining to say the least! 
Trans_Maro wrote: I think you'll find that (as much as I dislike them) a Ford Windsor is smaller and lighter than a SBC.
Front distributor also means you can get more engine setback than a SBC, there's a reason the 289/302 was/is the engine of choice for shoving a V8 into a small car or oddly laid out engine bay (e.g. old mercedes).
In reply to fasted58:
this confirmed what I pretty much already knew. The Ford SB is no smaller (actually a bit bigger) than a SBC.
Joe Gearin wrote: It can be done, but I'm not sure if you can get away without any hood mods. Ted Lathrop's car is exceptionally well done, it's a TR-6, but nearly identical to a TR4 under the skin. This was obviously way over Challenge budget, but it may give you ideas: I've driven this car, and its entertaining to say the least!
That's a wonderful car, as you said, well done. Every SBC stuffed into a TR4/TR6 that I've ever seen has some hood modification for clearance.
Here's a pic of Ted's from your link:
Can two inches be shaved off the height by some magic combination of intake / Carb / Air filter. One of the most attractive features (to my eye at least) of the TR4 are the hood lines. Ironically it's the factory offset power bulge that's the most pleasing to me.
EDIT: this is not my car pictured below. (mine is a in MUCH sadder state)
I would also recommend a TPI setup for clearance, but baring that you could use the lowest manifold you can find, then mill the carb mounting area down some, an Edelbrock carb will likely allow for a shorter air cleaner.
Or, and im just brainstorming here, could the carb be remotely mounted? I remember seeing an Impala with twin turbos and a draw through carb. I don't know if it would work with a NA setup though.
maybe a custom manifold with side draft carbs mounted low and wide.
People have suggested the small block Ford - one thing to remember is the SBC oil pan has a rear sump, the SBF oil pan has a front sump (except for Broncos, which had a sort-of rear sump and an extended pickup on the oil pump). The layout of your car's crossmember will determine which is a better fit.
I bet if you injected the engine with a pair of custom long tubes you might be able to get the TBs low enough to let the hood close
Indy-Guy wrote:Joe Gearin wrote: It can be done, but I'm not sure if you can get away without any hood mods. Ted Lathrop's car is exceptionally well done, it's a TR-6, but nearly identical to a TR4 under the skin. This was obviously way over Challenge budget, but it may give you ideas: I've driven this car, and its entertaining to say the least!That's a wonderful car, as you said, well done. Every SBC stuffed into a TR4/TR6 that I've ever seen has some hood modification for clearance. Here's a pic of Ted's from your link:
Do we know what manifold, filter element, and air cleaner base are in this picture? The height of those three things combined varies more than two inches. Look at what the Corvette guys are doing (and what GM did from the factory on the C2 and C3), that's where you're gonna find the bulk of discussion on making a SBC fit under a low uncut hood.
I know Ted and can give him a call and find out what it has for an intake and carb. I have driven this car as an auto and a five speed, it is very well built and fast.
Ted is a retired GM tin knocker and has a mill in his shop so it may be slightly custom.
You should see his current Lotus 7 style cars, one with a 215 Buick the other with a Porsche engine.
Just FYI, not pushing an EFI Ford 302, but I have the info handy.
From the bottom of the Foxbody oil pan, which is lowest at the rear, to the top of the intake on the high side with an Explorer intake, mine is 26.75 inches. But the throttle TPS sticks up a little higher, and that gets it to 27.75.
That's measured all the way to the bottom of the oil pan, which is the lowest point. You're measuring 25" from the framerails, but I don't know where the framerails would line up to the motor in your car.
If you look at pictures of a Ford 302 with a Foxbody oil pan, you'll see there is a serious hump in the oil pan, which can be positioned over the front cross-member to get the overall engine lower in the bay. I'm 95% sure there are front-sump and rear-sump pans available, with matching oil pickups.
Also the intake is higher in the back than it is in the front, so if the hood is sloping down it works out nicely.
The motor and T5 transmission are a nice package, and widely available with the EFI wiring harness and computer for reasonable cost. When people are figuring out motor weights, I urge them to factor in what the transmission will add to the package, as there is sometimes a penalty there with Chevy's.
In reply to Indy-Guy:
24 inches tall from bottom of oil pan to top of intake manifold (carbs are on the side) 21 inches wide 32 inches long..
Think outside the box, Jaguar V12. Massive torque (more than a Chevy 454 of the same year) more power than a Chevy small block even though it's only 326 cu. in. ALL aluminum.. head, block, intake, water pump.
I buy them for as little as $50 but the best deal is probably a rusty Jag you can often pick up for as little as $300. XJ12 sedan XJ-S etc.. They were made from 1971-to 1997..
From about mid 1977 to end of production they had a GM turbo 400 (or it's overdrive version) transmission. so adapting a Chevy 4-5-6 speed manual transmission is pretty easy..
They are massively stout.. the bottom end is easily good for 800+ horsepower and can be modified so easily to make 400+ horsepower.. (that's without taking them apart) Overheating is simply the owner/mechanic not understanding that the advance mechanism on the distributor needs a few drops of oil every oil change (less than 10 minutes of work the first time you do it).. They look scary complex but that's because of the airconditioning, air pump and all sorts of stuff you won't need..
They are really simple.. look underneath all those hoses etc.. polish things up and it's a real beautiful piece without the junk on top.. Google hot rod Jaguar V12's
One other thought.. The Jaguar six.. Nope not the cast Iron version designed in WW2 but the later all aluminum 4 valve per cylinder powerhouse with up to 285 horsepower stock and light!!! Jaguar first made them in the 3.6 litre version and later came out with a 4.0 litre.. When raced against the V12 it is very competitive because it's lighter. They also made a supercharged version which is a snarling fast beast!!!
GM took the engine for payment of Jaguar's debt for GM transmissions.. Just before Ford Bought Jaguar.. They used it in the 2002 Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, Buick, and Oldsmobile SUV They increased the size to 4.2 liters and switched the electrics from Lucas to Delco.. It too is an extremely reliable engine and contains some really high tech pieces.. It's a little wider just as long but about an inch taller
The SBF is smaller and lighter and a better bet, but the Chevy has been done. Whatever you do, don't dispense with the cross brace between the front suspension - having them slowly fold in toward each other isn't fun.
I always thought this TR-6 Ecotec swap looked pretty neat
http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/AlbertGary.htm
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