Small wagon shootout

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to discuss small GRM-style wagons.

I'm looking to replace #1 daughter's recently departed base '98 Impreza wagon. I never owned a Subie before but in its short time with us it endeared itself to us (despite needing some work), so a similar (but newer) replacement is our first choice. However, in going a little newer, it opens some options. Please give your suggestions to meet the following criteria:

• Compact wagon
• 2000-2005 (prefer 2002+)
• Automatic trans (I know, I know)
• 50-90,000 miles
• Actual selling price $6000 +/- 25% (will go $7500-8000 for an ideal car but prefer not to)

The Impreza 2.5 TS/RS is ideal but a little scarce - WRXs are easier to find, even in a wagon, but I don't really want a WRX for a variety of reasons. TS/RS cars tend to be 2003-04, 95,000 miles, and asking $6995. If I buy one at $6k I pretty much have to plan on immediately putting a timing belt and water pump on it. I've never driven one, but if it's a newer version of the old L with a bit more pep, we're gonna like it. Pros are AWD, ABS, and fun handling, probable durability.

Could also go with Outback Sport but the base car is nice enough and I'd rather buy reduced mileage than a fancier car for the same price.

Next contender is the Protege5, 2002-04. These tend to ask around the same price as the RS/TS, but are about 5 times as common, so it's easier to find a lower-mileage example. Looks nice, supposedly great handling dynamics, but also never drove one. Cons: FWD only; 2.0l gives up 30 hp and 30 lb/ft to the Subie's 2.5 (automatic Impreza is as quick as manual P5), ABS is a rare option. Durability unknown.

So which is a more fun, more solid, more useful car out of these two? What else should I be looking at? What should I be paying?

do not discount the sister to the impreza/wrx.. the Saab 9-2 X. they are often overlooked by the subaru fanbois, so are usually in better shape and sell for cheaper

00-02 SW2

many are automatic. simple. great efficiency. absurdly cheap to insure. don't rust.

ought to be waaaay under your budget.

mad_machine wrote: do not discount the sister to the impreza/wrx.. the Saab 9-2 X. they are often overlooked by the subaru fanbois, so are usually in better shape and sell for cheaper

Yes, I have that on my radar as well, but they haven't really crept into the bargain bin yet. There is one in OK that I have an eye on that is near the budget.

I'd also look at the Forester, but I'd rather something with a lower CG. I've heard that Outbacks can't be lowered but I don't know about the Forester.

belteshazzar wrote: 00-02 SW2 many are automatic. simple. great efficiency. absurdly cheap to insure. don't rust. ought to be waaaay under your budget.

But... fun to drive? The Subies handle great and offer AWD for a little better rotation. The P5 is alleged to have great dynamics for a FWD car. I don't have anything against Saturns, but from my driving experience in several friends cars (admittedly limited to short cruises) I'm underwhelmed. Never driven one in anger (or even mild annoyance), though. I also know nothing about the mechanicals - how are they to work on? I gather they suffer from Neon Syndrome - everybody decided ahead of time that they were POSs so they just got used and tossed.

Thanks for the fast tips! Keep 'em coming, please!

why not toyota matrix XRs? (celica GT-S Drivetrain, available awd and 6 speed)... :)

Duke wrote: I'd also look at the Forester, but I'd rather something with a lower CG. I've heard that Outbacks can't be lowered but I don't know about the Forester.

Hell yes.

Simple matter of bolting on a WRX suspension. The thing about the Impreza wagon was the sloped rear window robs cargo space. The Forester's vertical liftgate gives you all the room you've paid for. Since all the earlier Foresters were built on the Impreza chassis, swapability is huge. Read more on my Forester pages

00-04 Ford Focus wagon or 5-door?

Volvo V40?

Autolex wrote: why not toyota matrix XRs? (celica GT-S Drivetrain, available awd and 6 speed)... :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think AWD and manual transmission were mutually exclusive. If that's not true, it will change my mind about those cars in a big way.

alex wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think AWD and manual transmission were mutually exclusive. If that's not true, it will change my mind about those cars in a big way.

ahh, it does appear that you are right...

"All wheel drive was also available from 2003-2006 when coupled to the 1ZZ engine and automatic transmission, but was dropped at the same time as the XRS." - Cited from wikipedia...

nevermind on that then...

In reply to alex:

I think you're right. Also awd and the xrs (celica gts engine) were mutually exclusive.

A Golf or Jetta Wagon? Do I even attempt to say < whispers > Passat Wagon < / whispers >. A4 wagon too.

We just bought a p5 for my wife. She really likes it. I don't love to drive it, but my DD is a miata. I'd say the handling was similar to the ~04 WRX I drove a few weeks ago. Neither was stellar, but both are reasonable.

I'll second the Focus wagon suggestion. I haven't driven one, but I own the sedan version, and it's quite a lot of fun, so I bet it should be at least alright.

At the high end of your price range the original Scion Xb becomes an option

The answer is SX4.

alex wrote:

Autolex wrote: why not toyota matrix XRs? (celica GT-S Drivetrain, available awd and 6 speed)... :)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think AWD and manual transmission were mutually exclusive. If that's not true, it will change my mind about those cars in a big way.

That's OK - specs call for an automatic. How's the handling? The Matrix looks OK but never seemed stellar for the money. I'll investigate the XRs.

This car will likely be autocrossed locally by a teenage female for performance driving practice purposes. I don't expect it to be competitive but I don't want it to be embarrassing either. Fun-to-drive is a general high priority on the list.

Never driven a Foci, but considering I could buy her a decent Taurus wagon for less money, they kind of went off my list. Also seem a little appliance-like - but I've never even sat in one. I admit to being utterly confused by the hundreds of ZKW / ZX5 / ZXR / SEX / whatever designations the different flavors come in. I assume it's related to the engine but I don't know which engine I should look for nor the appropriate call letters.

I've been avoiding VWs due to the general reliability horror on this forum. Can we trust VW electrics yet? Also, simple is good.

The Volvo has promise but light and cheap to fix are both preferred qualities.

A Ford Taurus SEX???

jrw1621 wrote: At the high end of your price range the original Scion Xb becomes an option

Did you just compare an Xb with a WRX or a Forester????

Forester STI.

'Nuff said.

Bobzilla wrote: The answer is SX4.

Well, I thought of that, but A) the listed budget is my cash-buy limit, and B) I'm not eager to reward her for wrecking her first car by buying her a brand new one. She can have another semi-beater, albeit a little less beaten than the first one.

SVreX wrote: Forester STI. 'Nuff said.

Dear Bob, this is a 17-year-old girl we're talking about! Have mercy on my insurance premiums. Also, she was taught how to drive a stick, but like her mother, prefers not to. Now, a Forrester with takeoff WRX/STi struts/springs is an idea I can get behind.

Foci are great handling cars. Anything but the wagon will accept the SVT suspension components as a direct bolt-on. Transforms the car for barely more than $300.

I have a ZX3 with SVT suspension, and, unfortunately an auto. The transmission saps a lot of the fun from the powertrain, but the suspension does a good job of breathing life back into the car. The SVT suspension was said to be on par with the M3 it was introduced, with good reason. It's fantastically controlled, very well balanced, but still very comfortable. Can't praise it highly enough.

To shed some light into the alphabet soup: the ZXs are hatchbacks, 3 door or 5. ZTW was a sportier suspension package available for the sedans and wagons(which the ZXs all had by default). The LX, SE, and SES designations were just trim packages. The SVT was replaced in '05(?) with the watered-down ST. No comparison.

Generally, within a model year, they all shared the same motor, aside from the SVT.

If an auto wasn't a requirement, I'd say an SVT Focus would be your answer, but you can get pretty close to SVT specs with bolt ons, for pretty cheap. If I was going to buy a standard model to tune, I'd get the 2.3 Duratec engine, since I understand it has a lot of headroom.

My suggestion: ZX5 with the 2.3, bolt on the SVT suspenders, maybe some more aggressive pads for autocross, eventually intake/exhaust/chip the motor, maybe a shift kit for the auto if you want to get ambitious.

This, with a 5 speed, was what I was recently shopping to replace my ZX3, and they were coming in right around $5k-$7k.

Well, you opened the door when you said 2.5 RS, WRX, and FUN!

Seriously, my daughter also drives an Impreza, and I can't imagine a better car for a young driver.

But the Forester STI is a dream idea of mine, having ridden in one. It would be easy to start with a Forester, add the suspension, then later plan to inherit the car when she outgrows it and take the conversion the rest of the way. Sweetness!

-Paul

SVreX wrote: A Ford Taurus SEX???

I had a Taurus wagon in high school. Does not compute.

I did okay in spite of that, though, in case you're worried. Bagged me a keeper, and I've been trying to keep her fooled for the past 12 years.

P5 durability is stellar! I'd like to have one myself but it won't tow a race car. The Protege in all its various forms and the Miata are the toughest cars that Mazda has ever built.

What about an Aerio? Ugly as sin....but they were pretty durable. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-Suzuki-Aerio-SX-Automatic-4-Door-Wagon_W0QQitemZ110360712067QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item19b202d383&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A7%7C39%3A1