Smart Cars?

Some of you probably saw my post about looking for a cheap smart car. We have been thinking through this plan some more and were wondering if these things are as likely to tip over as the media has lead me to believe. We will be tweeting the suspension and running sticky tires on it (2016 challenge is the plan) and want to make sure that it isn't going to Reliant Robin on us. Anyone ever auto-xed one of these or seen it done? I know a lot of clubs won't let them run due to the height/width ratio.

Solution: pull off/cut away the fenders and run really low/negative offset wheels. Of course due to the damn 3 bolt wheels thing they would probably have to be custom made.

Waiting on Mr Thwaite to check in here. I'm sure he put his though it's paces while he had one.

drdisque wrote: Solution: pull off/cut away the fenders and run really low/negative offset wheels. Of course due to the damn 3 bolt wheels thing they would probably have to be custom made.

Are wheel adapters challenge legal? Just a lathe and a mill away from running whatever cheap wheels you can find....

Considering some of the cars that have gone up on 2 wheels autoxing with sticky tires, I would expect that regardless of what you do this has the possibility of going over. So just plan your safety gear accordingly. Here are a few other ideas:

1. Give it the "Crossblade" treatment, bolt a low profile racing seat to the floor, and make the roll bar only as high as it needs to be to pass the broomstick test at that point.
2. Custom suspension mounting/design to move the wheels outboard of the body width.
3. Split the car down the middle and add width.
4. Add outriggers.

Outriggers need to go out and over a standard cone, so you do not drastically increase your car's width in autox situations.

and keep the scandinavian flicks to a minimum.

I've seen one go very far over on 2 wheels at an autoX. It was lowered with wider wheels and spacers on street (like 400+ treadwear real street) tires. Was a 1st gen (diesel) if it makes a difference.

Whatever you do, be careful.

singleslammer wrote: We will be tweeting the suspension

Does that mean you're going to have suspension telemetry going to Twitter?

Even though the Smart has the engine sitting below the trunk floor, the car's dimensions aren't good for staying shiny-side up...it's very nearly as tall as it is wide and it's an extremely short car.

Good thoughts gang. Likely, we will see what it is like with really low offset wheels and go from there. The idea would definitely be "lower is better" on the seating position and since we are thinking sport bike motor that should assist too.

Bigev007 - my research says that Smart realized that issue on the first gen and made a number of changes to keep it from happening in the later versions.

Driven5 - 2 & 4 are possible but 1 isn't really necessary as the halo on a Smart car has better protection than a standard roll bar. I am not splitting a car for width. That is an insane amount of work for something I can do at the suspension way easier.

Wide body Smarts look like they are from the movie Cars:

Hi singlesslammer,

Have you considered going electric?

Super low CG, tons of torque = no need for a transmission, don’t need much endurance anyway…just a thought.

In reply to singleslammer:

The roll bar comment in #1 was namely for if there is any concern about it being allowed to run based on track vs height, as it might allow for a significantly lower measured height...In addition to removing all possible weight higher than to CG. At autox speeds you don't need anything better than a proper roll bar. It also might be possible to 'chop' the safety cell and integrate what's left with a rollbar, more like what was done on the Cabriolet. Either way, I still say cut off the windshield/roof and replace the doors with a single 'side impact' tube, as on the Crossblade, even if keeping the unmodified safety cell.

For #2 the rear suspension would probably be tougher (more expensive) than the front to widen. If significantly widening the front, doing so to the rear might not really even be necessary.

Yeah #3 was a bit out there.

Definitely make sure #4 clears the cones. Bonus points if the car can finish the run on two wheels + the outrigger, even if doing so slowly.

I finished an autocross backwards on Sunday!

For the Challenge, I like the above photo of the car with the roof cut off.

If you don't want to commit quite that far, Lexan windows will make a huge difference.

In reply to SVreX:

Gotta brag don't ya!?!?!?

In reply to Driven5:

Awesome, I like that suggest and what SVreX said about Lexan. Width changes in the rear shouldn't be too bad as we have to figure out a chain drive setup for the motorcycle engine.

In reply to Spinout007:

Absolutely! Never hit a cone- Dang, it was fun!!

(Spinout007 and Mr Joshua were there)

This could be interesting to figure out. This is the rear suspension of the Smart.

Lexan will do more than you realize.

I did a Lexan windshield in my MINI Cooper S. It was only a 12 lb reduction, but it was 12 lbs where it counts (up high).

I could FEEL the difference in the handling. And the MINI is a heavy car. It weighs 60% more than the Smart.

As a percentage of the overall weight, there is MUCH more to gain in the Smart.

I sent that picture of the Crossblade to my teammate and he is worried about chassis strength.

In reply to singleslammer:

Bah!

In reply to SVreX:

Should we not be worried about that?

singleslammer wrote: I sent that picture of the Crossblade to my teammate and he is worried about chassis strength.

Why? Does he know that those were actually sold to the public? Has he seen what they did with the safety cell on the cabriolet? If he's really worried about chassis rigidity, you can triangulate the door opening by running one door bar from each hinge mounting point to the latch mounting point and then weld them in.

singleslammer wrote: In reply to SVreX: Should we not be worried about that?

With a drivers bar welded in correctly I doubt it. Not like you are going to drive the thing cross country and not much to hit on a autocross course. You could leave the cowl from the factory alone and just remove the windows and not take to much of a weight penalty.

If this is a challenge car I am more interested in how you are going to make it track straight in the quarter mile.

Smart car vs Mustang This guy is on the tercel forum, he has a blown tercel engine with a holley carb in his smart car. He is down in the 11s I think (with a wheelie bar).

Spinout007 wrote: Waiting on Mr Thwaite to check in here. I'm sure he put his though it's paces while he had one.

Oddly enough, not so much. It really was just a highway commuter for me. That being said it never really felt unstable. I did almost get it to do a stoppie once in an emergency braking situation though ;)