Snow tires vs. all seasons

The tires on my Volvo 740 are almost dead (practically bald in back). I was shopping for snow tires but that means I would also have to buy new tires in the spring. Last winter I drove my WRX with summer tires and only had a couple days where it was a problem, and even then I just had to slow down a bit and stop sooner.

Could I get most of the performance of a snow tire by going with an aggressive all-season? What brand/model should I look at to give me decent traction in the snow?

Decent traction in a RWD in the snow? That calls for snow tires. The beauty of this is that you get better tires the rest of the year. MUCH better tires.

All season tires aren't really that good at anything besides holding air. Don't expect to get "most of the performance of a snow tire".

All season tires have most of the performance of a bald rent-a-go-kart tire.

Get snows or use your summers, either will be better.

The only "all season" I have EVER gotten decent winter performance out of was a Nokian WR, on my BMW 525it. They were just that - decent. Even then I got stuck a few times. Just buy real winter tires, save yourself the headache.

There is no comparison between a true modern snow tire, and an "aggressive" all-season. It's the equivalent of running aggressive all-seasons at an autox, and running an R compound.

That's all pretty much what I thought. I was just kinda hoping to get away with spending less money. Considering I deliver pizza in this car I should just go with the snows.

I can always put my Azenis on it for summer so I don't have to buy another set of tires right away.

Yep, no comparison. I've been invited to many tire events - the coolest of which was the Bridgestone Steamboat Springs school, which is held on a solid ice track high in the Colorado Mountains. Real snow tires are made out of compounds that stay soft and malleable in the cold. The difference is night and day. I've taken part in comparos that pit AWD vehicles clad in all seasons against FWD with snows... again, hands down the snow tires performed better with far quicker stopping times and lots more grip while turning on ice.

I've been looking at tires to run a few autocrosses this winter, and I was about to consider the Kumho Ecsta 4X or Continental DWS, when I remembered that there have been plenty of tests which showed winter tires being faster than all-seasons in the dry in the summer. I haven't really found anything about dry performance in freezing temperatures. Shaved winter tires have also been used for drag racing.

I really liked the cheap 175/70R14 Dunlop Graspic DS-2s I had. Extremely mushy, but great in snow. I am now driving around on 185/65R14 Goodyear X-Ices which feel a lot sportier, but are pretty crappy on snow and ice. The line between the really good all-seasons (DWS, RE970AS) and "performance" winter tires is probably a little vague. Neither is really a good choice.

In reply to EvanB:

I'll say this for the billionth time--a skinny cheapie generic snow tire will destroy the best alleged all season every time.

Doo eet.

This thread has me itching to mount my new and first ever set of snow tires on my car. It's just not quite cold enough in Chicago. Yet.

After several years of running with all seasons for business I picked up some snows for the Town Car about 3 years ago.

I will never drive in snow again without snow tires....

Javelin wrote: or use your summers, either will be better.

In the snow??!

I drove in the snow (approx .5") in my 2.5RS on summers once. About a mile. Never again. Almost got stuck on flat ground. My stopping distance was like 1241346513465245123452 feet from 15mph.

+1 to all of the comments about snows being wayyyy better than all seasons.

Evan,

You might find someone at the rallyx this weekend who could sell you some cheap snow tires. I've got a couple of winter forces I'd give you in (I think) 195/70r14, but I won't be there on this go around.

Thanks for the offer, I need some 15s though.

I agree with what everyone's said about snow tires being WAY better than anything else in the snow, but I'll also add car specific experience. I used to have a 744T (sold it earlier this year because I couldn't justify moving all 6 of my cars across 3 states). My Volvo was particularly sensitive to cold slick conditions without snows. I got caught out in unexpected light snow a couple times in the 10 years I owned it. Once I even had my mother in law in the car and it scared the crap out of her. Why it was so sensitive to this I never did figure out, but it went beyond just being a turboed, RWD, open diff car. Normally I ran the original wheels with Blizzaks for winter, and some 940 (16x7?) Hydras the rest of the year. It worked great and was perfectly safe for kid hauling duty. I sold the extra wheels with the car and I figure it increased what I got for the car when I sold it by about the same amount I paid for the extra wheels 10 years previously, so it was a wash monetarily, too.

aussiesmg wrote: After several years of running with all seasons for business I picked up some snows for the Town Car about 3 years ago. I will never drive in snow again without snow tires....

this

snow tires > all

a performance winter tire like Blizzak LM-series or Dunlop Wintersport series performs in dry/wet pretty comparable to a mid-performance A/S tire anyhow. I'm on my 4th season with my Wintersport 3Ds on a 300hp WRX (run then Nov-March) and they're still at 70% tread or so. Then I run UHP summers for the rest of the year.

Now, I would hate DD'ing all winter on a basic/cheap/non-performance "SNOW" tire. They're loud, soft, and wear very fast. The performance snows are much better in all those categories (albeit much more expensive).

I tear up a little when I see a whole load of other people who say all the same crap I do. Winter tires are amazing. I was preaching the winter tire gospel yesterday to a guy I work with. You just can't get it through some people's heads. Summer tires are a huge improvement over all-seasons too, but the difference between winter tires and all-seasons is even bigger. Plus, if you buy the wheels and winter tires you can get all the benefits of dedicated summer tires when you're able to have fun!

Then again, I do have five sets of wheels for my MR2 and a storage locker to keep it all in, but that's more because of Autocross than anything else. Everyone needs a set of good 9lb. wheels.

For the record, I am a firm believer in the greatness of snow tires and definitely prefer to use them. I was only asking because I am short on money right now and wanted to know if I could maybe squeak by with all-seasons. Looks like the general consensus is no, just as I figured.

Evan, if you don't have the cash for snows you could potentially get by with all seasons. I'd load up the hatch/trunk with two 50lb bags of sand over the rear wheels and drive slow. If you have the cash for snows you're going to spend at least $300 for Firestone Winterforces or General Altimax Arctics. This price is for a winter tire/wheel package from Tire Rack. Getting by on all seasons assumes that you're not going to get more than 5 inches or so.

I live in VA. Previous years our max snow falls were between 3 and 8 inches. I was able to get around in a FWD car pretty well on all seasons. The last time I had a RWD car in snow at that depth I had to be real careful of where I stopped and started. That car was a 95 Z28. It was horrible in any snow. Big wide tires, heavy, powerful motor. All this added up to trouble. That was a car that would've benefited greatly from Blizzaks.

The last year in VA was Snowpocalypse. Successive 10+ snows. Most were over 12. The wife just bought a Subie Forester so my Speed3 stayed in the garage. The subie did great on all seasons driving in that stuff. My driveway is heavily inclined. The subie clawed up it with no problems on all seasons.

Ideally, snows would be great. But we don't get enough snow here to justify them. Chalk up one driver who manages the winter in VA without snows.

I know 'round here, good winter tires pop up on craigslist. Might be worth a look.

ProDarwin wrote:

Javelin wrote: or use your summers, either will be better.

In the snow??! I drove in the snow (approx .5") in my 2.5RS on summers once. About a mile. Never again. Almost got stuck on flat ground. My stopping distance was like 1241346513465245123452 feet from 15mph. +1 to all of the comments about snows being wayyyy better than all seasons.

Yup. Tire Rack did a test where even the Summer tire beat out the All-Season in the snow. All-Season tires are freaking pathetic. Oh, and the snow tire beat the All-Season in the dry sun as well.

Nobody said you can't manage on all seasons, its just exponentially harder than on snows.

Xceler8x wrote: Ideally, snows would be great. But we don't get enough snow here to justify them. Chalk up one driver who manages the winter in VA without snows.

lol j/k

I drove for years in NoVa in FWD cars with A/S tires (Integra, Accord, Maxima), and while I did get stuck at the occasional intersection or incline, I still managed to "get around" ok. THat said, all three of those cars at one time or another ended up facing backwards in traffic in slush/icy conditions (using Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, which are high-rated for "snow" for an A/S tire). Most of this was in curves when I had to brake to avoid other stupid people on summer/AS tires doing stupid things.

With Blizzak LM-25 on the Maxima and Wintersports on the subie, I never even came close to having that happen....

I don't think anyone is saying that one can't get around with A/S tires in the snow and winter mess (especially in a Subaru), but I guess it's a matter of "how safe do I want to be".....while accelerating from a stop is indeed better with a winter tire, the main benefit is in braking and turning (and emergency "get out of the way of the SUV with bald tires sliding toward me").

Even on dry roads under 30 degrees or so, the compounds on the winter tires grip SO much better than A/S compounds do, particularly in braking and quick maneuvers. I think that's almost more important to me than how the tires perform in the actual snow, when everyone is going slow anyways.

But that's why I get the high-performance winters - because 95% of the time they're being used in dry or rain, not snow and ice, and they're very competent in those conditions.