So, how do I do this? Rust repair on a SIGNIFICANT level

Dads truck. 1951 ford f1, that has a fully restored  chassis with a dual carb offy headed flattie and t5 ready to go.

He wants patina to stay on the outside, with a mint interior thats a nice place to be. 

We have a welder, brake, and no fear of failure. 

What i dont have is a plan on how to actually do it. 

The cab is out of shape fir some reason. When you shut the doors, you have to force them in place. This visibly changes the a pillar and roof shape. And floor shape (well, whats left of it). The doors are tilted down at the latch end by a good half inch or so. Hinge pins not worn, and no accident damage visible. 

you can see it in the body line here pretty clearly. 

My thoughts are that the floor is so compromised by rust that the bottom of the cab has spread enough to cause the issue. Does that sound reasonable?

Heres the floors that ill be replacing. I have a patch panel to start woth, but after that i start making it up as i go. So, suggestions are more than welcome. 

So, step one is addressing the cab to doors fitmet, then making sure it stays that way. After all the metal is fixed,  ill have the inside of the cab media blasted before starting paint and finish work. 

Suggestions? Ideas? Merciless taunting?

Secondly, if theres a good education and guide to blending patina,  that would be perfect. I have to put cab corners in as well. 

I am WAY not qualified here, but I have a hard time believing that that amount of floor rust could materially twist the cab like that.  In your position, I think my first move would be to ask my friendly local frame-straightening guy to gently pull the cab into trueness, then fix the rust.  The alternative seems to be that you'll be trying to configure patch panels, etc., so they fit some undefined shape that isn't a Ford cab.

Are the cross pieces on the floor straight/square? Is a complete floor available?

I would first set the cab on the frame with new body mounts then see how it is.

Michigan chiming in to express jealousy over your rust-free truck.

L5wolvesf said:

Are the cross pieces on the floor straight/square? Is a complete floor available?

I would first set the cab on the frame with new body mounts then see how it is.

That's my thought also.  Then if it all lines up weld braces in the cab so that when you remove it you stay straight.

I would sure start out by bolting it on the frame, or something very much like it.  Those old cabs have very little structure, and rely on being bolted to something sturdy  underneath.

Get it up on something and you will probably find the thing that's collapsed or bent.

Yeah, I wouldn't call that rusty and I'm from the South. When the driver's seat falls out on the ground you can call them rusty.

100% agree with Streetwise. I also wouldn't worry about how the doors shut until the cab is bolted to the frame. The front fenders also probably hold the firewall and A post where they belong. And if it's like SanFord, there are diagonal braces that keep things from flopping around. Without all that structure, you don't really know what you have. 

If the plan is to not use fenders then you need to figure out how to add that support back. Keep in mind, the cab on these old things wasn't really structural. No crumple zones, no roll-over protection. It was simply there to keep the rain off and hold the windshield up. 

Has the cab been moved by a forklift and bent some of the supporting metal under the can floor ?

Otherwise CAD - cardboard patterns  for a floor pattern.....

I'll bet you could pull the cab  to square up the door openings with a couple of ratchet straps. Run them from the top of the B-pillars down to the base of the A-pillars and gently pull both sides until the doors line up properly . Then weld a strap across each opening to hold it there while you go at the floor.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Michigan chiming in to express jealousy over your rust-free truck.

For reals

So, as another member of the Michigan contingent, and as someone who started a business welding up rusty cars and trucks in Michigan 25 years ago (Eclectic Motorworks), I can tell you a tape measure is your best friend here.  Start by measuring the mounts on the frame.  Measure the parallels, the X's, and make sure they're all about the same height from the ground or a good datum point.  If they're not within about 3/8" of each other side to side, maybe 1/2" on the X's, you'll want to address the frame issues first.  (Yes, tolerances were terrible on old cars--I really did say 1/2" on the X's).  Then put the cab on the frame as suggested by the others and measure lots of parallels and lots of X's in all directions.  Measure your doors as well--very often, one door will be off by 1/4" or more compared to the other (did I mention tolerances were terrible in the old days?).   Also, set your doors on a flat surface and see if they're twisted.  As you write down all of those measurements, you'll start to get a picture of what appears to be right and what appears to be wrong and you should be able to make a plan from there.  Don't worry  too much about what the measurements were from the factory (if you can find them)--what you want is nearly equal parallels and nearly equal X's that match your doors gaps and body lines.     

That's a solid foundation by our standards--hopefully your tape measure will tell a useful story.

p.s.  At one point, it seemed we'd welded up all the rusty cars and trucks in Michigan and they started coming in from the Toronto area.  I once welded up an MGA for a guy who brought us the barely usuable top 2" of the main body tub.

Put the cab on the frame and bolt it down. Shim it into shape. 

Pretty sure that LMC has all the floor panels you need. Not a huge fan of anything that I have bought from them, but better than nothing.

https://www.lmctruck.com/

The design of these trucks is kind of neat. There is a box, a cab and the front end. There is no body line that carries past its own zone so you don't have to worry about getting long sweeps to line up across panels. The front fenders overlap the cab, but do not actually attach to the cab.

Just wrapping this one up after a 7 month thrash.

Thanks guys. Ill try to respond coherently. 

The significant rust doesn't photograph well when tbe guy behind the camera is a moron. The rocers only exist because they haven't fallen off yet. How, i dont know. Everything on the horizontal plane is tissue paper thin, with many, many pinholes. 90% of the seams between the rear cab wall and kick panes and floorboards is open air. Front and rear cab corners missing. Some of the rood seams are perforated significantly as well. 

Honestly,  im not sure its worth saving, but dad wants to. So i will.

The options presented, from the way i understand, to make doors fot and do repairs 

1. Remount to frame, after ensuring frame is square. My thoughts: how do i protect frame and everything else while doing all the cutting, grinding, blasting, etc? I vant see a way to do so, but that doesn't mean im not thinking of it. Just seems like an opportunity to make more work by having to do rework. 

2. Ratchet strap cab square with good door fitment, weld in bracing to keep it that way. My thoughts: how do i get in the cab to do the work then? Or is it significantly less bracing than im thinking? Ir is it going to suck regardless?

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Michigan chiming in to express jealousy over your rust-free truck.

Minnesota also over here with same sentiment. 

wisconsin boy wondering where the pictures of the really bad rust are

I am going to echo the that's not very rusty sentiment. I was explaining this to my kids last week. In this area it is rare to see a vehicle that is more than 20 years old (if it is a driver).

That is a sweet looking truck even with the little but if rust repair that is needed in a couple smallish spots on the floor.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

Michael, I would think an X brace in each door opening should be enough. If the rockers are as bad as you say, then maybe add a horizontal brace a few inches above the rocker. Then I'd check the gaps around the doors to see if squaring up the door openings actually worked. There's still the possibility that the hinge mounting points in the A-pillar have moved. As for welding on the truck frame consider measuring the truck chassis accurately and replicating the mount layout and heights on a wood pallet. Go back and read Carl's post. I would create a wood or steel pallet that mimics the chassis mounting points, bolt the cab down to it and then square it up before welding any new sheet metal in. To Carl's point, you can get this pretty close with a tape measure . As long as you end up with a solid and square cab, and the doors close properly, you can always shim body mounts.

Edit: I don't know where the mounts are, but if they're on sections you have to cut out and replace it'll be somewhat different.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:

 

1. Remount to frame, after ensuring frame is square. My thoughts: how do i protect frame and everything else while doing all the cutting, grinding, blasting, etc? I vant see a way to do so, but that doesn't mean im not thinking of it. Just seems like an opportunity to make more work by having to do rework. 

Add bracing to the cab once fitted to the frame and then removed to a more suitable location like saw horses or other reasonably solid fixture for the rest of the work. Maybe mount it to the firewall/back of cab so you can get to the floor.

2. Ratchet strap cab square with good door fitment, weld in bracing to keep it that way. My thoughts: how do i get in the cab to do the work then? Or is it significantly less bracing than im thinking? Ir is it going to suck regardless?

Not much is really required to keep it square. Not as bad as the AMC cage... Some 1x1 (as small as 1/2x/12, or even flat strapping or angle) in diagonals across the doors and across the cabin will keep it square enough to get the work done. Since the roof is mostly intact, keep your bracing near the bottom half of the doors.

 

You have my number if you want a more complete description.

Just a sample, but note that the door hinge and lock attaching points are utilized

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) said:

1. Remount to frame, after ensuring frame is square. My thoughts: how do i protect frame and everything else while doing all the cutting, grinding, blasting, etc? I vant see a way to do so, but that doesn't mean im not thinking of it. Just seems like an opportunity to make more work by having to do rework. 

There are various products from companies like 3M that can protect the frame but fairly costly.  We usually use multiple layers of masking tape in key areas and then use welding blankets in larger areas to keep sparks and grinding grit from causing issues.  We also clean very frequently as dust and grinding grit doesn't cause much damage until it's rubbed in--cleaning keeps it from getting rubbed in.  If the frame is powdercoated, it will hold up well.  If it's just paint, it may not, but it's usually pretty easy to spot-repair areas that need attention.

One more bit of information overload for you:  Regarding shimming the cab, once you get your measurements pretty even and your doors to fit, I highly recommend fitting all of the front end sheet metal.  We've seen/corrected a number of pickups over the years that were shimmed or repaired such that the cab "leans" a bit forward or backward (usually forward after the front mounts rusted and then were poorly replaced).  In those cases, the door fit can be just fine, but the hood especially will have terrible fit.  Hood side gaps will have a taper and sometime the latch won't even come close to lining up.  Sometimes 1/4" of shim can make a side gap change by an inch!

Now I feel like you should get some encouraging thoughts:  Since this is a patina build, I think you've got a much easier job.  You can focus more on the operation of the doors and hood etc., than on the gaps.  If they shut well and latch every time (on the 2nd latch), you can call it done.  That's so much easier than trying to make perfect 1/8" gaps on vehicles that were never that good from the factory.  Getting those perfect gaps can take hundreds of hours, while getting things solid, shutting, and latching usually takes dozens of hours.

Another thought on the doors. If the cab is twisted, there should be a symmetry of bad-fit from one side to the other. Where one door is low, the other will be high. Pay attention to the gaps and see what they tell you.

Another thing that I do when a door does not want to line up in the hole is to remove all hardware and try to fit it to the opening.  If the doors fit this way, then there is bound to be some combination of shims or adjustment that will make it work. 

Agree with Carl: put all the panels on the frame and find out what you are starting with. The one we just finished had the cab on short mounts and this messed with the front sheetmetal alignment. 

Is there a forum for old Ford truck enthusiasts and can you find one or more build threads on it (with pictures that still link) and read/study what those guys do/did to their cabs?

Watch this guy's videos. Practical rust repair to the max.

Ive done pans before. But never where the body changes shape due to them not being there/etc. Duster, el camino, 77f150, and a gto.

This one intimidates me due to door fitment and that theres nothing to leave in place to work to.

Good call on trying to find some threads on other guys doing this in this generation of truck. Dont know why i didn't think about that before....