So I want a third-gen Camaro

I will be looking to trade off my 2003 E55 AMG with all the Eurocharged goodies, ~550 horse for an IROC vert this year. Thats how strong the want is.

If I was going 3rd gen cheap I would go with one of the following:

3800 V6 from a later Camaro/Firebird

305 Vortec from a 96-99 GM truck

350 Vortec from a 96-99 GM truck (some 2000 GM vans still had these)

All three, go high miles so junkyard options cheap should be available

When I had my '86 Firebird, I kept thinking about the '89 Turbo Trans Am.

It's the Buick 3.8 with a turbo (Aka leftover Grand National/T-Type engine). Results should be better with the easier to acquire 3800 Series II.

At this point, the guy with the engine-less Camaro I was fully intending to buy,has fallen off the planet, so I'm probably not getting that one. In its stead, I've picked out a pretty solid V-6 1990 Firebird that has all the fairings like a GTA. I wonder how hard it's going to be to manual-swap it.

The biggest hurdle I know of is that the 3rd gen f-body transmissions have the mount for the torque arm on the tail housing, so if you have a trans that isn't from a 3rd or 4th gen f-body, you need to relocate that mount to the cross member, but most people recommend doing that anyway.

So, I own one. An '88 Iroc-Z/350/hardtop. Was my highschool car, picked up a rod knock in college, and I've basically dragged it with me the last 10+ years whenever I've moved for sentimental reasons, planning to LS1/T56 swap it as time and money allows.

My advice is drive SEVERAL. Then buy a good one. A good one will feel much tighter and better put together than a crappy one. The suspension and steering will work well, and it won't squeak and rattle. A bad one will feel like you're going 100 when you're only doing 50. At the moment, there is little to no cost difference for a good one vs. a bad one, just takes time and looking.

I got lucky and got a pretty good one, and never understood the hate towards F-bodies. I have driven some poorly maintained or beat 3rd and 4th gen cars since, and I think that's the difference. If you drive a bad one, you'll hate it. If you drive a good one, they're damned decent for what they are.

I recently went searching for an el camino to run in CAM. I ended up finding an 84 z-28 for stupid cheap in running condition. It was a drag car and outside of some electrical gremlins that are really the PO's fault, it seems to be the answer for budget muscle.

In reply to MattW:

Depends which 305. There was a 305 carb, 305 TBI and 305 TPI. The TPI was not bad, if backed by a 5-speed. The carb engine had potential. The TBI was a dog. Early cars had cross-fire injection (often derided as Cease-fire injection) which was, essentially, two TBI units on a cross ram manifold.

I have decided to broaden my search from just 3rd Generation cars to also include the 4th generation. It seems like every single 3rd gen car I have looked at has a story. It's usually a title problem, or a missing title. But I'm also seeing quite a few rusted-off rear trailing arm mounts and holes in floorboards. A very small percentage of the cars actually still have engines in them, too. Is there some sort of strange rusty Camaro crime ring, wherein odd criminals steal rusty old Camaros, then harvest their engines for-profit?

In reply to M030:

Perhaps it has to do with all Camaro drivers being murderers, as Clarkson suggests - dripping blood pools near trailing arm mounts and rusts them out, engine blows up during getaway...something like that .

Seriously though, it's a platform that is very likely to have been driven hard, raced, modified, abused, subjected to hold my beer moments, ect plus they've been cheap for a long while and tended to have hotter sbc variants (read: good engine donors.)

The 4th gens are pretty similar underneath, just with a double wishbone suspension (albeit a poorly designed one) up front, different drivetrain options, and poorer styling (IMO, and that's coming from a 4th gen owner.) But I'm sure you knew all that. The super tall gearing with the t56 is a nice bonus, makes cruising at 90 effortless. If auto x classing is a consideration, I'd favor the 3rd gen in CAM-T over the 4th gen in CAM-C.

Not sure where you're located, but I thought I'd share This that I came across, no affiliation. Looks like a solid start and it's already got the 5 speed.

Furious_E wrote: If auto x classing is a consideration, I'd favor the 3rd gen in CAM-T over the 4th gen in CAM-C.

Very much this. it's the difference between the best suspension in a lower class and the worst suspension in an ever improving class.

AClockworkGarage wrote:

Furious_E wrote: If auto x classing is a consideration, I'd favor the 3rd gen in CAM-T over the 4th gen in CAM-C.

Very much this. it's the difference between the best suspension in a lower class and the worst suspension in an ever improving class.

Bingo. I held my own against a newer Charger last season and narrowly beat him out for the season championship in CAM-C, but got my ass whooped when real competition showed up this year. The 4th gen just isn't a match for the '05+ Mustangs, let alone the '15+.

This one is about twenty minutes up the road from me.

"I have a 98 SLP SS Camaro....Car is in great shape....Just had new ac system and window motors installed....Has 170k but all has been gone threw in the last 10k miles car doesn't smoke,leak or burn oil....It's auto and trans shifts great...Very nice car , everything works like it should....Only down fall on paint is on the wing and just the wing it self....I need to get this sold guys and yes I'm firm on my price 4500... Title is clean and in hand...."

Chadeux wrote: When I had my '86 Firebird, I kept thinking about the '89 Turbo Trans Am. It's the Buick 3.8 with a turbo (Aka leftover Grand National/T-Type engine). Results should be better with the easier to acquire 3800 Series II.

Not quite the same motor. The sloping nose of the Trans-Am required a lower profile intake and heads/valve covers to fit.

I worked for Prototype Automotive Services in '88, and they did the prototype work for Pontiac on that project. Even got to drive one of the test mules one day around the streets of Farmington Hills, Mi., and surprised the hell out of a guy in a new Vette.

Trackmouse wrote: Running true dual exhaust sucks. There's no freaking room! My '87 used to bottom out on the exhaust. Stock ride height.

So don't run a true dual exhaust. I've had customers with 700hp on a single exhaust. No ground clearance problems either

Flynlow wrote: My advice is drive SEVERAL. Then buy a good one. A good one will feel much tighter and better put together than a crappy one. The suspension and steering will work well, and it won't squeak and rattle. A bad one will feel like you're going 100 when you're only doing 50. At the moment, there is little to no cost difference for a good one vs. a bad one, just takes time and looking.

This.

Supposedly the tooling was so worn out by '92 that they were using structural adhesive when putting the shells together in addition to spot welding. So in theory a '92 should be the tightest feeling, even before taking to account that it's also the newest.

So I wanted a third generation Camaro, so this morning I bought a fourth generation. It's a 3.4 L/5 speed manual 1994 model with no apparent rust, from the original owner With 98,000 miles on it for just under $1000. I'm delighted to have it, and feel like I got a good deal

racerfink wrote:

Chadeux wrote: When I had my '86 Firebird, I kept thinking about the '89 Turbo Trans Am. It's the Buick 3.8 with a turbo (Aka leftover Grand National/T-Type engine). Results should be better with the easier to acquire 3800 Series II.

Not quite the same motor. The sloping nose of the Trans-Am required a lower profile intake and heads/valve covers to fit. I worked for Prototype Automotive Services in '88, and they did the prototype work for Pontiac on that project. Even got to drive one of the test mules one day around the streets of Farmington Hills, Mi., and surprised the hell out of a guy in a new Vette.

They used different heads because they no longer used the heads that they used on the GN in anything.. also, the newer fwd heads were better in every way so it was a win/win deal to use them.

If you decide to really make a 3rd gen a weapon, these guys can help:

Heidts

IRS, subframe connectors---- all kinds of goodies to address the knowns 3rd gen problems. With these cars being so cheap, you could build a seriously badass car for way under $20K.

PICS!

OK, so you bought a low milage 4th gen 3.4 5-speed for under a grand. if its fairly clean, well bought.

Don't spend effort trying to make more power, just give it a good round of maintance and make sure its running right. Rear suspension is the same for 3rd/4th gen.

All 4th gen cars were built as t-top cars. They just bonded a fiberglass roof over the structure for a 'hard top'. Trying to convert from a t-top to hard top will save a little weight, but not gain enough strength to count. The hard top will probaly break if you tried to remove one. Take out the t-tops and enjoy unlimited helmet room!

The best budget chassis upgrades are simply to use Z28/Trans Am parts. They will bolt on and are cheap when someone is parting out or upgrading a car. V8 sway bars, fresh springs and shocks (too cheap to bother with used unless Challenge bound) and subframe connectors. Used LSD axle will bring along disc brakes for the rear. Watch your ratios closely, Automatic V8 had 2.73 axle - 3.23 was and option. Manual V8 was 3.42. Not sure what early V6 had, but they were all open intil 1996 'Y87' 3800 performace pack cars came along.

Stay with lighter 15" or 16" wheels 245/50/16 is factory Z28 size. (275 was SS/WS6 stuff)

novaderrik wrote:

racerfink wrote:

Chadeux wrote: When I had my '86 Firebird, I kept thinking about the '89 Turbo Trans Am. It's the Buick 3.8 with a turbo (Aka leftover Grand National/T-Type engine). Results should be better with the easier to acquire 3800 Series II.

Not quite the same motor. The sloping nose of the Trans-Am required a lower profile intake and heads/valve covers to fit. I worked for Prototype Automotive Services in '88, and they did the prototype work for Pontiac on that project. Even got to drive one of the test mules one day around the streets of Farmington Hills, Mi., and surprised the hell out of a guy in a new Vette.

They used different heads because they no longer used the heads that they used on the GN in anything.. also, the newer fwd heads were better in every way so it was a win/win deal to use them.

Also, the FWD heads were narrower, made it easy to fit the drivetrain between the strut towers. The GN downpipe sits waay over the framerail, it actually runs underneath the evaporator case. Some lower-quality downpipes require hacking a hole in the bottom of the evaporator case for clearance, there goes your functional A/C!

In reply to M030:

Congrats!

In reply to TIGMOTORSPORTS:

Strangely, I'm happy with the 3.4. It's by no means fast, but back in 94, I bet it felt almost fast. At this point I'm going to focus on handling upgrades, and just autocross/enjoy it pretty much the way it is. Although one upgrade I would really like to make is a posi rear, preferably with 3.73s. The Internet tells me these came stock in 86-9 Z/28s. Does anyone know if it really will bolt right in to my fourth-gen?

Recap of the past 3 days:

• Shops for 3rd gen Camaro
• Buys 4th gen Camaro
• Back on the market shopping for 3rd gen Camaro parts

I was aware there were some differences between the GN and TTA's V6 but didn't know the details. I still think I'd start with a 3800 from a 4th gen if I was going to build one.