so Mazda is doing an unveiling at NY

In reply to chiodos:

IIRC, the difference on the NC was not dramatic. 100 lbs or so. Here in the Northeast they are fairly common. About 50% of NC I see (or used to see) during my commute through central NJ. Here in NH, there aren't many Miatas .

JoeTR6 wrote: As a 26 year owner of Miatas, a PRHT does not interest me in the least. Now the coupe, that would get me into the dealership with cash in hand. Please don't tell me Mazda has stopped reading my mind.

This also. If the former, I stick with BR-Z as the next car. If the latter, I buy a fastback miata.

I'm not a grandmother, I don't need a retractable, heavy hardtop. I need a permanent hardtop.

I remember the difference being about 80 lbs on the NC. Not enormous, especially when you consider the non-power removable version added about 40 on the NA/NB. The top design of the ND is very similar to that of the NC, so I expect the weight difference to be similar.

As for rigidity, the PRHT NCs have surprising changes in the body design. The rear quarters have an extra layer in them, for example. You find this out when you try to roll the fenders It was obviously part of the original design intent, not just a late bolt-on.

The end result is a car that is indistinguishable from a soft top with the top down, and feels like a coupe with the top up. It's a real guilty pleasure. I want to hate them, but I can't.

irish44j, remember that an ND Miata with a 100 lb weight gain will still be around 400 lbs lighter than a BR-Z. Nobody says you HAVE to put the top down.

As someone who loves convertibles but hates the liabilities of a soft top, a PRHT ND would be a game-changer for me.

Though a 6 coupe is still my dream DD.

Keith Tanner wrote: I remember the difference being about 80 lbs on the NC. Not enormous, especially when you consider the non-power removable version added about 40 on the NA/NB. The top design of the ND is very similar to that of the NC, so I expect the weight difference to be similar. As for rigidity, the PRHT NCs have surprising changes in the body design. The rear quarters have an extra layer in them, for example. You find this out when you try to roll the fenders It was obviously part of the original design intent, not just a late bolt-on. The end result is a car that is indistinguishable from a soft top with the top down, and feels like a coupe with the top up. It's a real guilty pleasure. I want to hate them, but I can't. irish44j, remember that an ND Miata with a 100 lb weight gain will still be around 400 lbs lighter than a BR-Z. Nobody says you HAVE to put the top down.

A PRHT still has no hatchback, and therefor compromises the utility of the car and interior space, which is where the BRZ is better. Hell, my GT6 can carry more stuff inside it than a Miata can, and it's a MUCH smaller car. Having the vert (either conventional or PRHT) is a reduction in available interior space and addition of weight I don't want or need. Also almost certainly is more expensive than a fixed roof would be.

IDK, maybe I'm alone in this. I'll never buy a Miata until the day one comes with a fixed roof. I know I'm only one person, but I'm actually a person who has the income and willingness to go to a dealer and buy one new off the lot if it's exactly the car I want. I never wanted a WRX when it was a fanboi ricer look, but as soon as the "boring/adult" version came out (09 sedan), I bought one the day after they arrived. I'd do the same thing if a Miata looking like that first photo came out....I'd be the first one at the dealer to buy it.

Remember, I'm the guy who has a Triumph GT6 when everyone else has spitfires ;)

Ian F wrote: In reply to chiodos: IIRC, the difference on the NC was not dramatic. 100 lbs or so. Here in the Northeast they are fairly common. About 50% of NC I see (or used to see) during my commute through central NJ. Here in NH, there aren't many Miatas .

Maybe that's the case all around. Even here in the dirty south I see more prht nc than I do soft tops.

Keith, interesting facts there. I didn't realize it was that light yet they still saw it fit to increase rigidity. E36 M3 that word still looks funny to me. Maybe I should go back to school to learn my engrish better

irish44j wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: I remember the difference being about 80 lbs on the NC. Not enormous, especially when you consider the non-power removable version added about 40 on the NA/NB. The top design of the ND is very similar to that of the NC, so I expect the weight difference to be similar. As for rigidity, the PRHT NCs have surprising changes in the body design. The rear quarters have an extra layer in them, for example. You find this out when you try to roll the fenders It was obviously part of the original design intent, not just a late bolt-on. The end result is a car that is indistinguishable from a soft top with the top down, and feels like a coupe with the top up. It's a real guilty pleasure. I want to hate them, but I can't. irish44j, remember that an ND Miata with a 100 lb weight gain will still be around 400 lbs lighter than a BR-Z. Nobody says you HAVE to put the top down.

A PRHT still has no hatchback, and therefor compromises the utility of the car and interior space, which is where the BRZ is better. Hell, my GT6 can carry more stuff inside it than a Miata can, and it's a MUCH smaller car. Having the vert (either conventional or PRHT) is a reduction in available interior space and addition of weight I don't want or need. Also almost certainly is more expensive than a fixed roof would be. IDK, maybe I'm alone in this. I'll never buy a Miata until the day one comes with a fixed roof. I know I'm only one person, but I'm actually a person who has the income and willingness to go to a dealer and buy one new off the lot if it's exactly the car I want. I never wanted a WRX when it was a fanboi ricer look, but as soon as the "boring/adult" version came out (09 sedan), I bought one the day after they arrived. I'd do the same thing if a Miata looking like that first photo came out....I'd be the first one at the dealer to buy it. Remember, I'm the guy who has a Triumph GT6 when everyone else has spitfires ;)

This sounds like a lot of justification as to how you've already made up your mind. You said hardtop, you meant hatchback. No problem, that's why both cars exist.

I've spent time in a GT6. That's gonna mess with your head for what's normal The ND is roomier for the inhabitants, that's for sure. Plus you don't have to drive with the windows open to stay cool. In Canada. In January.

Also the Frisby's hatchback is nearly useless due to the design of the trunk space.

It's hard to believe that Mazda would build a fixed top Miata (that picture looks awesome though!) as then they would have 2 cars in 2 segments that sell minuscule numbers compared to other segments. Yes I love them. I have a Miata and a RX7. Yes most people here love them but they are not going to keep Mazda in business. The twins aren't setting the world on fire, and they are by all accounts great cars. It can't be a 2 door 6 either as 2 door coupes generally don't do well compared to sedans in sales. It has to be the PRHT which could potentially double Miata ND sales. That's the one I have been waiting for. The "lid" reference seals the deal.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and may or may not have anything to do with actual reality.

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: Also the Frisby's hatchback is nearly useless due to the design of the trunk space.

FR-S and BRZ are not hatchbacks... they are coupes with trunks. They would be more useful as hatchback's (trunk opening height really is the major factor in what you able to carry stuff - like a paper grocery bag, won't fit if you don't leave enough space at the top for it to collapse down), but the designers put handling and chassis rigidity first and nixxed it having a more useful hatchback. It's a compromise I can live with...

The miata being a convertible is not a compromise I can live with though... irish44j, you are not alone, I won't ever really seriously consider a miata until a hardtop coupe version is released. Heck, the Ginetta G40R is what an MX-5 coupe could be...it's buit with the MX-5 drivetrain yet weighs ~500lbs less than a miata (of course the frame is based off the race car). If only it were available in the US...I'd sell the FR-S for one with zero hesitation.

irish44j wrote:

mazdeuce wrote:

captdownshift wrote: I'm hoping it's the above ad opposed at the CX4. The claim is that they're going to "blow the lid" off of the show. Hopefully that means coupe.

Pleaseberealpleaseberealpleasebereal.......

Pleaseberealpleaseberealpleasebereal.......x 1 billion.

I want to believe but this image looks Photoshopped to me. The rear 3/4 window is opaque and there is light reflecting off of the people's foreheads. Really looks like someone took a 911 roofline and pasted it in.

Keith Tanner wrote: PRHT = Power Retractable Hard Top

I onyl speak two languages, English and Bad English. I don't speak acronymese

codrus wrote:

captdownshift wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: There's an irony in a prht nd, I have a single functional arm, my left, and in have no issue in operating the ND's brilliant soft top latching mechanism from either seat using just said left arm.

I never saw the PRHT as being about ease of top going up/down, more about getting coupe look and a quieter ride when driving with the top up.

All of this. Soft top convertibles are aggravating to drive in for more than a couple minutes without earplugs.

Maybe I'm just sensitive. I spent a lot of time in a Saturn (LW300) recently and was wishing for earplugs too. Lots and lots of road and wind noise, not enough sound deadening. (Also, I'm'a go back in time and kick a SAAB/Saturn engineer in the nuts.)

irish44j wrote: IDK, maybe I'm alone in this. I'll never buy a Miata until the day one comes with a fixed roof.

Sit in and drive a '78-80 RX-7, then sit in and drive a 1990 Miata, and you'll find that they feel like the same car.

Two or three years after I had to give up my much-beloved '80, I had to spend some time in a bon stock 1990 that its owner wanted us to restore. It was like a homecoming. Engine felt the same, handling felt the same, pedals and shifter were in the same place (although the early RX-7's long angled shifter still feels better to me than the Miata's straight stub) and even the dashboard design with round vents is the same.

Mazda sold something like a million '78-80 RX-7s, I think. The numbers were ridiculous. So when they made the Miata they went with what they knew worked, after they bloated and boringed the RX-7 through the fat FB and boulevard cruiser gold-chain FC abominations.

(Yes I rallycross an FB. I don't feel bad about trashing FBs. I would not ever do anything with an SA but restore it and rub it with a diaper.)

irish44j wrote: Remember, I'm the guy who has a Triumph GT6 when everyone else has spitfires ;)

I own a GT6 and a Spitfire. The GT6 hatch slopes so much I've found it tricky to stuff things into it, although I did manage to get my road bike into the back of mine with both wheels off, something that could never happen in the Spit trunk. One upgrade I want to do is the build a speaker cabinet behind the seats that is even with the cargo floor.

However, the trunk of a Spit is arguably more usable in more normal situations. We've (my ex has one too) been surprised at how much can be stuffed into that trunk. I've taken mine grocery shopping a number of times (being single, I don't go often, but I do tend to buy a lot when I do). Oddly enough, since buying the Spit from fujioko, the hardtop has yet to come off, but mainly because I don't have a decent place to store it right now. I recently bought GT6 door glass assemblies from foxtrapper to add the the vent windows. Such a fun car... I really miss it right now.

Personally, I think the big benefit of PRHT on a ND would be better winter durability and less road noise. Granted, compared to my Mini, my GT6 or Spitfire feel like luxury cars when it comes to road and engine noise. That little berker is seriously loud.

What I really want is a new 323GTX please.

In reply to Knurled:

I give serious thought to converting my FB to full Miata running gear if the 12a ever bites the dust.

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to Knurled: I give serious thought to converting my FB to full Miata running gear if the 12a ever bites the dust.

So did I. B6 would be the perfect replacement for the 12A.

I'd do something overcomplicated and stupid like a B6 head on a B3 shortblock, because I can't ever do anything easy.

What if it's a Mazda 6 with two doors, but with a wagon-like rear hatch area ala Volvo 1800ES? Basically the two door sedan images that are earlier in this thread mixed with the back of the wagon the rest of the world got outside of N. America.

That would be cool.

I'm not an RX7 guy, although I did do my first solo drive in an FC. What's the difference between an SA and an FB? I know about the license plate relocation, that's it.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

There are North America-only chassis braces (precluded the availability of storage bins or rear seats), the front struts have different travel, the chassis is lighter, the shifter position is about six inches further forward so the shift lever itself is longer and angled, the dashboard is simpler and less bulky. The steering box is a better design that is less prone to developing extreme play. No catalytic converters. '79 had Ford style calipers and points ignition but '80 had the '81-91 pin style calipers and electronic ignition.

Also the cars were lighter and the suspension firmer. The front springs felt stiffer and the rear swaybar was 18mm vs. 15mm for later cars. They drove like karts.

Really there are more differences than similarities... it's one of those model changes where there is either no interchange, or thigns can only be interchanged as complete assemblies.

I didn't pay much attention to the ND when they came out. Is there a removable hardtop available?

Woody wrote: I didn't pay much attention to the ND when they came out. Is there a removable hardtop available?

A few aftermarket vendors are teasing them but AFAIK none of them are officially for sale yet.

Knurled wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: PRHT = Power Retractable Hard Top

I onyl speak two languages, English and Bad English. I don't speak acronymese

If that's the case, you'd never be able to work where I do. My company has been described as having acronymaphilia.

Woody wrote: I didn't pay much attention to the ND when they came out. Is there a removable hardtop available?

Not so far, even though it looks like one should be a pretty easy fitment.