Harvey wrote:
Where was the message from the dealer or SOA to stop driving the car? Are they supposed to guess at that? Is that what the average person would just do with their daily driver? How is a surge or hesitation a problem that means they stop driving the car completely unless told by the dealer to stop driving it? At the time it was a totally new car, with no known issues!
And you've flopped back the other way.
These are professionals (you said so), they should know it's not normal for the car to stall/buck under acceleration or steady state throttle, yet they kept driving it.
Probably because they weren't paying for it. 
Not much to add other than some times you get a bad one and it sounds like he did. What is the warranty on these 50k?
z31maniac wrote:
Harvey wrote:
Where was the message from the dealer or SOA to stop driving the car? Are they supposed to guess at that? Is that what the average person would just do with their daily driver? How is a surge or hesitation a problem that means they stop driving the car completely unless told by the dealer to stop driving it? At the time it was a totally new car, with no known issues!
And you've flopped back the other way.
These are professionals (you said so), they should know it's not normal for the car to stall/buck under acceleration or steady state throttle, yet they kept driving it.
Probably because they weren't paying for it.
If i were in C&D's shoes, and the dealership couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, and i still knew it was eating E36 M3, i'd just figure some damage was already done, and if they can't figure it out, they can eat a new motor.
If i'm buying a new car, it's so i can have a nice new thing, not so it can be in and out of the dealership while i'm stuck with a loaner so someone else can't figure out what's wrong with my hideously expensive fancy new car.
Once they've seen it a couple times and i have that there's something wrong with it on record, blown motor time. 
z31maniac wrote:
Harvey wrote:
Where was the message from the dealer or SOA to stop driving the car? Are they supposed to guess at that? Is that what the average person would just do with their daily driver? How is a surge or hesitation a problem that means they stop driving the car completely unless told by the dealer to stop driving it? At the time it was a totally new car, with no known issues!
And you've flopped back the other way.
These are professionals (you said so), they should know it's not normal for the car to stall/buck under acceleration or steady state throttle, yet they kept driving it.
Probably because they weren't paying for it.
No, I asked how you are blaming this on user error when the users are a well known car magazine. I never said, "They're professionals" and that they should know what to do for every situation, that's entirely something you have made up. I'm saying they aren't going to go against what the dealer tells them to do. If the dealer told them to park it then they would park it, but that never happened, because there is no way the dealer would be forking over for a new engine if they had done something wrong with the car.
Swank Force One wrote:
z31maniac wrote:
Harvey wrote:
Where was the message from the dealer or SOA to stop driving the car? Are they supposed to guess at that? Is that what the average person would just do with their daily driver? How is a surge or hesitation a problem that means they stop driving the car completely unless told by the dealer to stop driving it? At the time it was a totally new car, with no known issues!
And you've flopped back the other way.
These are professionals (you said so), they should know it's not normal for the car to stall/buck under acceleration or steady state throttle, yet they kept driving it.
Probably because they weren't paying for it.
If i were in C&D's shoes, and the dealership couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, and i still knew it was eating E36 M3, i'd just figure some damage was already done, and if they can't figure it out, they can eat a new motor.
If i'm buying a new car, it's so i can have a nice new thing, not so it can be in and out of the dealership while i'm stuck with a loaner so someone else can't figure out what's wrong with my hideously expensive fancy new car.
Once they've seen it a couple times and i have that there's something wrong with it on record, blown motor time.
This right here. For one thing, I'll take a loaner, but you better be able to fix the problem. If they sent them away without a loaner, it's because they figured the problem wasn't that serious, turns out the dealer was wrong and had to eat the motor cost.
dean1484 wrote:
Not much to add other than some times you get a bad one and it sounds like he did. What is the warranty on these 50k?
Drivetrain is 5yr 60k mile, so he has no leg to stand on legally.
Apparently he had an extended warranty to 75k miles. Just missed that too.
docwyte wrote:
Ok then, $10,100.
Getting warmer! He's in CT.
z31maniac wrote:
These are professionals (you said so), they should know it's not normal for the car to stall/buck under acceleration or steady state throttle, yet they kept driving it.
Conversely, one could argue that the point to a long-term test is to get a sense of what it's like to actually own one of these vehicles so that they can convey that to their readers. The average owner isn't going to park a car that's doing odd-but-not-immediately-catastrophic things for several months while the dealer tries to figure it out, because he needs it to drive to work!
kanaric wrote:
I find it VERY hard to believe that someone buys a STI as a commuter, lol
Believing or not is obviously your prerogative, but I don't find it hard to believe.
Heck, I kinda-DD an Evo X and that car doesn't see any Auto-X or track duty, so I can understand why someone would do the same with an STI.
codrus wrote:
z31maniac wrote:
These are professionals (you said so), they should know it's not normal for the car to stall/buck under acceleration or steady state throttle, yet they kept driving it.
Conversely, one could argue that the point to a long-term test is to get a sense of what it's like to actually own one of these vehicles so that they can convey that to their readers. The average owner isn't going to park a car that's doing odd-but-not-immediately-catastrophic things for several months while the dealer tries to figure it out, because he needs it to drive to work!
Very true.
I'm just thinking if I was actually paying for it with MY money (a $40k car), I'd tell them to keep it and give me a loaner until they can fix it.
Or lemon law it.
Can't lemon law it until it spend x amount of time in the shop, or goes back for the same issue x amount of times.
What if the dealer won't give you a loaner? If it's not throwing a CEL and the dealer tells you it's safe to drive, do you honestly think you're going to leave it with them?
Nope, you're going to take it home, continue to drive it and bring it back when something gets worse. Then they'll fix it. Under warranty.
Its a KNOWN, SIMPLE fact that the 2008's had a very bad tune from the factory. Like, well known enough that if you type 2008 sti problems into google it should be one of the first things to come up.
I feel little pity. The subaru motor issues have little to do with the motor itself. I have no idea why this board seems to love being so misinformed about Subaru's, its like you guys get off on it. Instead of read a book, I'll tell you to learn how to internet.
^^this.
I remember when I got my 09 WRX dyno'd at a reputable subaru shop (MachV, one of GRM sponsors IIRC), the owner looked at the A/F and was like "this is one of the worst stock tunes I've ever seen on a turbo car." Thankfully, a simple Cobb stage 1 flash off the accessport turned the tune into what it should have been from the factory (more powerful, much safer on the engine, and same mpg to boot).
That said, the major issue with the early 09s (like mine) was not due to tune, it was due to improperly cleaned cranks.
Harvey wrote:
I was just kind of disgusted that the thing blew up at such a low mileage, but apparently the 2008 cars are known for having various engine issues.
I remember when they came out. It was noted that, under certain low-boost conditions, they would run silly lean and detonate lightly.
irish44j wrote:
That said, the major issue with the early 09s (like mine) was not due to tune, it was due to improperly cleaned cranks.
Sure, and that is a manufacturing defect, not a physical design problem. The 4L60e in gm pickups has a design defect, namely the sun shell kersploding. I find it acceptable to be pissed about that.
Manufacturing incorrectly? Improper tuning? That doesnt make the motor itself is E36 M3. It means some jerkoff engineer f%$ked up somewhere.
(I'm not saying this to you, but in general in this thread :) ).
The point is... they blow up. Often. Something sucks. They blow up with tunes and without tunes.
Chebbies suck too. 
I find it hard to believe a factory defect would take 80,000 miles to show up. That's a pretty good life, even though we now expect more. Any slight neglect over those 80k miles could have caused this problem. Now if every 2008 Subaru blew up at 80k, then there may be a class action suit, but I doubt that's the case. The car owner can bring a lawsuit, but I doubt ant lawyer would take this case.
Sorry about your bad experience. Better luck next time.
HiTempguy wrote:
Its a KNOWN, SIMPLE fact that the 2008's had a very bad tune from the factory. Like, well known enough that if you type 2008 sti problems into google it should be one of the first things to come up.
I feel little pity. The subaru motor issues have little to do with the motor itself. I have no idea why this board seems to love being so misinformed about Subaru's, its like you guys get off on it. Instead of read a book, I'll tell you to learn how to internet.
You feel little pity? Because people should just anticipate that their newly manufactured car has a bad tune from the factory and be searching for problems about the car even though they never had any and then once they've done this random search they should also trust a bunch of random self proclaimed tuning and Internet experts rather than the manufacturer about how their car should be tuned.
Because people do that all the time with their daily driver.
Kramer wrote:
I find it hard to believe a factory defect would take 80,000 miles to show up. That's a pretty good life, even though we now expect more. Any slight neglect over those 80k miles could have caused this problem. Now if every 2008 Subaru blew up at 80k, then there may be a class action suit, but I doubt that's the case. The car owner can bring a lawsuit, but I doubt ant lawyer would take this case.
Sorry about your bad experience. Better luck next time.
Wow, any slight neglect could make a motor blow up eh? What is slight neglect? Seems to me that slight neglect shouldn't blow up a motor, but maybe we have a different definition of slight.
In reply to HiTempguy:
If I bought a new car I would never think to check and see if the factory had tuned it poorly. I would assume that as long as I'm using it as intended it would work properly.
$5000 to replace the engine? I hope that is a new or factory rebuild.
How damaged is the engine. Could you get away with a new head, piston, rod, and some bearings and button it back up?
mad_machine wrote:
$5000 to replace the engine? I hope that is a new or factory rebuild.
How damaged is the engine. Could you get away with a new head, piston, rod, and some bearings and button it back up?
I'd have to get a full rundown from him, but apparently they were just gonna do a new short block. The dealer has $4500 for parts and $2500 for labor.
I've got an '05 Legacy GT. I absolutely love the car- but will never recommend a Subaru or buy another. The engine is currently on the workbench, waiting for re-assembly. The car was my bone stock commute car, well maintained and never beaten on. My engine made it to about 135,000mi before it broke a couple ring lands. Does that make it a good one? Or was it a bad one that only lasted so long because of how I babied it? Ironically, my '92 Galant VR4 is taking it's place in daily driving duties. It's stock long block has no problem with 20psi on a much larger turbo.
The 2.5 turbo engines have a couple big problems. #1 is the crappy stock tune. It varies from car to car and year to year, with some worse then others. I'd bet that a large percentage of failures happen in areas where you can only get 91 octane. Secondary is that the ring lands are not as strong as other turbo cars, and not tolerant of detonation. Lastly, quite a few cars have had the stock oil pickups crack.
The good news is that there are lots of parts available to fix the problems, since there are so many failures. You can find new factory short blocks for as low as $1600.
The best route is probably replace the engine and get rid of it while you can. I wish my car wasn't a unicorn manual wagon, I would have fixed it and dumped it. Instead, I'm rebuilding the engine with forged pistons. Unfortunately, these cars also seem to have lots of problem with rebuilds. It's not easy to find a machine shop that can do them properly, and many don't last long. I'm being very picky about mine, and hoping I'll be one of the lucky ones. Oh, and it's definitely getting a better tune.
