So these HPDE things...really cool, yes?

So it seems that one has to pay $44 to join NASA, spend the $200ish on a helmet, and make sure your car is reasonably safe, and you can drive the VIR with a professional riding shotgun?

That really seems too good to be true, but if it is true, freaking sweet, I'm going.

Any tips if I'm taking a car that's, say...ermm...well, it's a damn Saturn sedan that's my daily driver Obviously make sure you have fresh oil, fresh brake fluid, brake pads/shoes/rotors are newer, you have no worn suspension bushings/leaking struts/old wheel bearings...

Any thoughts?

Upgrade brake pads/linings and mohr tires

No roll bar? I wonder if I could use my Boxster for an HPDE...

A Saturn Sedan, holding the right line, looking ahead, maintaining momentum, nailing the braking points, and doing it "right" will whip up on "faster" car that is speed shifting, coasting into the turns, over-braking, slowing where he should be maintaining speed, over steering, under steering, etc.

Think of it this way: it's like having sex with Fergie. You might not be real good at it, but you will definitely have fun!

M030 wrote: No roll bar? I wonder if I could use my Boxster for an HPDE...

Yes, with NASA or the PCA. BMWCCA, no dice.

I ran a 4dr auto Cobalt rental car in HPDE 1 once when my car wasn't ready. I had a blast and learned a lot driving an underpowered car. 99 MPH speed limiter in them I learned! LOL Your Saturn should be fine. Complete brake fluid flush before the event.

NASA HPDE Requirements (posted below) are from their website and mention rollbars in verts.

Membership in NASA or a NASA sanctioned club Any car in safe operating condition (from Ferrari to Hyundai) Mufflers. Different tracks have different sound policies Roll bars in convertible autos Seat belts in good working order State driver's license Long sleeve shirt and pants (cotton is great) A helmet Knowledge of the Club Codes and Regulations At least 18 years of age (16 w/parental consent)

Yeah, NASA DEFINITELY will make you have a good, four-point minimum roll bar. - And you'd be crazy not to anyway.

You don't really need a bar in a hard-top car for all clubs though. I would put one in the Saturn if you plan to do this often, but you can do that later on. Some clubs say that the stock roll bars can be sufficient (even pop-up bars). I don't know about NASA though. I started with Summit Point Raceway's Friday At The Track (FATT) events. My stock Z3 bars were fine. They were even the ones who stated that pop-up bars were OK.

My tips...

1. Make sure your car is safe at the most basic levels
2. Leave everything at home that you don't need (floor mats, beer bottles, copies of GRM are OK)
3. Listen to your instructor and do what he says
4. Read the "first timers" write-ups on the specific club's site
5. Create a check list. Check it twice.
6. Sign up for the first damned event you can find and GO!

It's not too good to be true.

Water. Sunblock. Closed mouth. Open mind.

In HPDE1, the car won't matter much. I've seen a Subaru Wagon (non-turbo) being held up by a Ford GT40 on slicks.

Only other thought is that you don't need to spend $200 on a helmet. You should be able to get away with an "M" rated helmet just fine.

Salanis wrote: Only other thought is that you don't need to spend $200 on a helmet. You should be able to get away with an "M" rated helmet just fine.

Eh I would say just spring for a good SA05 model helmet (SA10 won't be out for a little while). Protecting your noggin is worth the extra cash (not even that much) The M helmet isn't built to withstand hits on those roll bars/roll cages. Safety is the last place to start cost-cutting, and if you have to resort to that, you probably don't have enough money to be on the track. I can see your reasoning, especially for HPDE1, but he's gonna want/need a real SA05 or SA10 helmet sooner rather than later, and he might as well buy it now instead of buying an M and then an SA-- later on. Buy slightly used tires, find brake pads on sale etc... but get a good helmet.

Like my buddy who said "Meh...they have $35 helmets at Meijer's. " $35 helmet for a $35 head. Don't skimp.

I need a helmet before the SA10 comes out (last I heard it was due in October). It'll be an SA05. But it will probably be an entry-level SA05. When the SA10 comes out, I'll spring for a better one. The changes are supposedly more radical than in the past and when I'm wheel-to-wheel racing, I won't have much hesitation pulling out the cash for a decent helmet. Just make sure you try it on in person. Go somewhere, find some and try a bunch on. Chances are slim that you're going to get a good fit by buying online without trying it out first.

Appleseed wrote: Like my buddy who said "Meh...they have $35 helmets at Meijer's. " $35 helmet for a $35 head. Don't skimp.

Depends. If its autocross without a roll bar/cage, I'd risk it. For an HPDE, or anything similar though, I'd make sure I at least have SA whatever. And I do have SA05 for autocross.

Twin_Cam wrote: So it seems that one has to pay $44 to join NASA, spend the $200ish on a helmet, and make sure your car is reasonably safe, and you can drive the VIR with a professional riding shotgun? That really seems too good to be true, but if it is true, freaking sweet, I'm going. Any tips if I'm taking a car that's, say...ermm...well, it's a damn Saturn sedan that's my daily driver Obviously make sure you have fresh oil, fresh brake fluid, brake pads/shoes/rotors are newer, you have no worn suspension bushings/leaking struts/old wheel bearings... Any thoughts?

You're forgetting the $180-250 ish entry fee on the day.

m

Bring extra brake pads and tools to put them on. HPDE will kill $17.99 pepzone brake pads quickly.

I also wouldn't do HPDE in a car that I couldn't afford to walk away from. Bad stuff can happen quickly, and even though it is a generally safe environment, there are greater speed and more barriers than a typical autox.

Don't worry about taking your Saturn on the track. I've done it a few times. My first track day was in my bone stock 95 SC2. It was a BMW CCA event (I'd originally signed up to do it in my 320i, but it died), and especially in the rainy conditions I found I could hold my own with the BMWs - and pass some. :) Granted, in the novice run group, the ability of the driver is everything, and the car matters very little.

In short, DO IT!

NASA at VIR was my first HPDE experience. That led to building a faster engine, 4 wheel disc swap, bigger tires, etc. Then I couldn't make that car any faster, so I built a race car. I go for my comp license in April.

So no, it's not just $44 for NASA plus the entry fee. It tends to get pretty expensive right after the first HPDE.

yes, HPDE is the most fun you can have wih your pants on, though you may need to launder them after wards if you have a really interesting "learning experience" or two out there.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

M030 wrote: No roll bar? I wonder if I could use my Boxster for an HPDE...

Yes, with NASA or the PCA. BMWCCA, no dice.

That inconsistency between clubs bugs me. PCA is insistent about fire extinguishers, but factory roll bars are O.K. BMW won't let a convertible within sniffing distance if it doesn't have a full cage (but no fire extinguisher), even with a bolted hardtop. BMW broomstick rule definition isn't even in the same ballpark as "everyone else" (top of bar to base of windshield with 1" helmet clearance if I recall correctly), makes me suspect the BMWCCA national board is rife with legal professionals. That said, I always enjoy their DE's, but miss the Miata when there.

Dashpot wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

M030 wrote: No roll bar? I wonder if I could use my Boxster for an HPDE...

Yes, with NASA or the PCA. BMWCCA, no dice.

That inconsistency between clubs bugs me. PCA is insistent about fire extinguishers, but factory roll bars are O.K. BMW won't let a convertible within sniffing distance if it doesn't have a full cage (but no fire extinguisher), even with a bolted hardtop. BMW broomstick rule definition isn't even in the same ballpark as "everyone else" (top of bar to base of windshield with 1" helmet clearance if I recall correctly), makes me suspect the BMWCCA national board is rife with legal professionals. That said, I always enjoy their DE's, but miss the Miata when there.

Well, NASA is for profit so they are open to allowing personal responsibility rather than limit the field.

The PCA is rife with top level legal prefessionals who are confident they can win in court.

The BMWCCA is made up of mediocre attorneys who could not afford Porsches. They worry they won't be able to afford insurance if a hot shot in a 911 cabriolet sands his forehead off at one of thier events and sues.

My wife's cousin showed up at an event with an Acura someone GAVE him. His track car had died, and he had no time to do the repairs. Check the Acura over, bled the brakes, changed the front pads, and good to go. Fast? No. Fun? YES, better than sitting at home.

Ditto on the Ford GT holding up traffic. I just love the Corvette's that blow by on the straights and do 40 in the corner, avoiding the apex like it has H1N1.

car39 wrote: Ditto on the Ford GT holding up traffic. I just love the Corvette's that blow by on the straights and do 40 in the corner, avoiding the apex like it has H1N1.

This is the classic "Everybody slower than me sucks as a driver, everybody faster is cheating" line. Its a school, Not everybody goes straight to the head of the class. Sometimes the new guys are too busy not crashing to pay attention to the mirrors. The instructor should be helping them with traffic.

Cut some slack to the guys who bring too much car for a noob to handle - If they don't come at all we would be paying a lot more than we do now for our track time and have nothing cool to look at but old BMWs and Miatas.

There was a thread about this a few months ago:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/hpde-advice/18105/page1/

Don't forget that NASA membership comes with a year's subscription to GRM and big discounts on some parts. The 20% off Porterfield and Hawk brakes more than pays for the cost of membership the very first time you buy a set of race pads.

I've been at two HPDE's. One was Hallett's regularly scheduled COMMA event and at the other about 20 of us rented the whole track (Hallett) for the day. That one was the most fun, being out there with only 3 or 4 other cars.

Yeah, new high performance pads, fresh DOT 4 brake fluid, have phun.

Ive only been on a road course one time so far.

I left with some pretty specific impressions.

Were they about making the car faster? HELLLLLLLLLLLL NO.

They were about getting a cage.

Maybe im that 1/10000 weirdo who thinks 'it CAN happen to me', but id rather be alive and weird than confident and dead.