So, what's the current availability of hatches and wagons?

The maverick may not happen. May keep the black truck. 

Which puts me in the market for a hatch or wagon. New, or 24 with warranty. Cheapest i can get that doesn't suck. Automatic. 

Loved my 3 hatch, 6 wagon, subaru wagon, etc. Have never owned an suv. Will not go for European stuff. 

Id LOVE to stay under 25k so I can one payment plan it, but not holding my breath. Warranty is a gotta have. 

I'm just not sure what, other than the mazda3 and the European makes, still have hatches and wagons....

And go!!

Corolla 5 door Hatch
$25,900 gets you the Nightshade appearance package of all black and bronze alloys 

Civic 5 door Hatch

Subaru Impreza (small station wagon)

Kia Soul also considers itself a wagon

The Chevy Trax considers itself a small wagon, not an SUV.  It doesn't just roll off my tongue to recommend a small GM but in the sub $25k range, these Chevy Trax look pretty good.  But, boy, I have my wonders about the longevity of their 1.2L, turbo 3cyl engine

In reply to John Welsh :

doesn't the Trax have Daewoo roots?

Have not heard anything good about the Trax, especially relative to the other stuff in its price point like the Corolla.

That Corolla 5 door is also rated for 32/35/41 mpg and that is done with no "trickery or complexity" of a turbo or hybrid battery.  Just a 2.0L gas engine running on cheap gas.  

It is a cvt trans but does claim to have shift paddles.    

In reply to John Welsh :

IMO, Toyota's CVT is the best in the biz because it uses a physical first gear before handing shifting off to the variable belt drive. It helps avoid the terrible lurching and lack of response at low speeds that the Nissan Jatco units are maligned for.

it's a bit above the request, but there's a 2024 Toyota Prius LE up in Huntersville for $28.4.  dunno how much of a deal there is on a "last year model", though... and it's more 'hatch-ish' that hatchback or wagon

Its down to the usual cast of characters.  Heck, nearly the same characters of 20 years ago.  

Mazda3, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic (and likely in that order for me.)  But, there is not a bad or "risky" choice in that group.  

In reply to John Welsh :

Not going to lie John that Corolla kind of gives me a half stock. I need to do some more digging on that tomorrow when I'm more awake see what else that package includes. But that's a good looking little hatchback.

pointofdeparture said:

In reply to John Welsh :

IMO, Toyota's CVT is the best in the biz because it uses a physical first gear before handing shifting off to the variable belt drive. It helps avoid the terrible lurching and lack of response at low speeds that the Nissan Jatco units are maligned for.

Is it used in anything that can be demonstrated as long term reliable?  My only experience with Toyota CVTs is hybrids which are very reliable but fundamentally different than a traditional CVT.

How about a cx-30?  I think they are better looking than the 3.  Yes, I suppose it is a CUV, but it is pretty darn close to a straight hatchback IMO.  I always thought these were a pretty good deal at around 25K.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to John Welsh :

doesn't the Trax have Daewoo roots?

IIRC they're made in Korea, so... probably?

Woke up at 4, couldn't go back to sleep.

So:

hyundai kona

Carolla hatch

Kia soul

Mazda3

Couple of cuv outliers with mazda.the civic is priced out, and gives me an innie.

Any others I'm missing?

Seems mazda and the motorsports models like n like are the only stuff getting a non cvt trans. 

The last true cvt I had was a Nissan versa from my sister in law that was a flaming pile of E36 M3. Do we still run away? 

You might be able to get a 2023 model Hyundai secondhand, the second owner gets the original warranty cut down to 5 yr/60,000 miles I think. Maybe you could get a Kona N like this one, IIRC the auto is a dual clutch.

TravisTheHuman said:

pointofdeparture said:

In reply to John Welsh :

IMO, Toyota's CVT is the best in the biz because it uses a physical first gear before handing shifting off to the variable belt drive. It helps avoid the terrible lurching and lack of response at low speeds that the Nissan Jatco units are maligned for.

Is it used in anything that can be demonstrated as long term reliable?  My only experience with Toyota CVTs is hybrids which are very reliable but fundamentally different than a traditional CVT.

I think the Corolla has had it with the separate 1st gear since ~2018.

See K210 section here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_K_CVT_transmission

Dusterbd13 said:

The last true cvt I had was a Nissan versa from my sister in law that was a flaming pile of E36 M3. Do we still run away? 

I have this question also.  I enjoy a CVT in a commuter.  If it was reliable I'd take it over a traditional auto 10/10 times.  But there are quite a few manufacturers with terrible track records in this area.  Nissan and GM for example.

Regarding trans reliability, you probaby dodged a bullet with the Maverick though 

In reply to TravisTheHuman :

My Fit has a CVT and I haven't had any issues with it in the 80,000 or so miles I've owned it (I bought the car used).

My only complaints are that, unlike the Toyota CVT mentioned above, starting off from a standstill can be jerky if you aren't delicate with the gas pedal, and most local shops won't replace the CVT fluid for you–I think because the fluid is carcinogenic.

That's just my two cents on CVTs.

I don't think Daewoo as an automotive company has existed in over 20 years.

There are two gens of Trax. The first was a tall Sonic. The latest one is the new VSS-F platform, and the 1.2 has thus far been very good.

My son has the Buick version and loves it. The AWD is very good and it has a regular 9 or 10 spd transmission.

But I wouldn't call it a wagon or a hatch

You should look at the inside before making a decision, the Corolla Hatch - at least the GR version - has a surprising lack of room inside.  (The Civic has a surprising amount of room inside.) If you really want space, you have to move to the Corolla Cross.  Not many small, affordable wagons are availalble anymore, which is why Subaru sells a billion Crosstreks in the Northeast. 

In reply to John Welsh :

i am really impressed with how good that looks for an econobox...those bronze wheels are nice

AMiataCalledSteve said:

You might be able to get a 2023 model Hyundai secondhand, the second owner gets the original warranty cut down to 5 yr/60,000 miles I think. Maybe you could get a Kona N like this one, IIRC the auto is a dual clutch.

Beware with a Kona N. Mine had an issue with the knock sensor circuit where if it got wet (rain, car wash), it would put the car in limp mode. It's been a fairly noted issue online - there was a decent thread on Reddit about it. Short of replacing the knock sensor, Hyundai didn't do much else for me - even when I escalated to corporate. Only way I could clear the CEL was to wait for whatever got wet to dry out and clear codes. It was such an annoyance that I ended up getting rid of it for a 24 Civic Si. Sadly, I loved that thing otherwise but when you drive through a puddle on the interstate and it suddenly lurches to a crawl, that's no bueno.

I'd vote Corolla hatch. I was leaning that way before I got the Si. My mom has a 2020 Corolla LE with 75k on it, no known issues as of yet. Other than my bias toward dislike of CVTs in general, it's a good car.

Colin Wood said:

In reply to TravisTheHuman :

My Fit has a CVT and I haven't had any issues with it in the 80,000 or so miles I've owned it (I bought the car used).

My only complaints are that, unlike the Toyota CVT mentioned above, starting off from a standstill can be jerky if you aren't delicate with the gas pedal, and most local shops won't replace the CVT fluid for you–I think because the fluid is carcinogenic.

That's just my two cents on CVTs.

Right, but I'm curious how they hold up in the longer term.  Is 250k a reasonable expectation?  On a traditional toyota (and most honda) automatic, it is.  I'd guess most Toyota autos are good for a lot longer than that.

With cars now being worth ~10-20k with 100k miles on them now, I dont want to consider something where the transmission is about to die (having just done this :( )

 

I really dig the looks of the current Corolla; they did a great job with the styling. Probably the best looking small car being made today. My only issue with them is that they seem a bit cramped on the inside. I'd keep that on the test drive list, at least. 

I test drove a N/A Mazda3 hatch a few years ago during my last daily driver hunt. LOVED the interior, but it was disappointingly boring to drive, at least with the manual. That's a car that I think would be better off with the auto, honestly. It can get more out of that engine, and the Mazda 6-speed auto, although short on gear count, is an excellent transmission. 

While you're at the Mazda dealer, I'd also take a CX-30 for a spin. Basically the same as the 3 hatch, but jacked up a bit, like their version of a Subaru Crosstrek. Same interior and drivetrain choices as the 3, minus the 3-pedal option. I see some pretty good deals on those pre-owned, even the turbo ones. I'd take one over a Crosstrek all day. 

TravisTheHuman said:

Colin Wood said:

In reply to TravisTheHuman :

My Fit has a CVT and I haven't had any issues with it in the 80,000 or so miles I've owned it (I bought the car used).

My only complaints are that, unlike the Toyota CVT mentioned above, starting off from a standstill can be jerky if you aren't delicate with the gas pedal, and most local shops won't replace the CVT fluid for you–I think because the fluid is carcinogenic.

That's just my two cents on CVTs.

Right, but I'm curious how they hold up in the longer term.  Is 250k a reasonable expectation?  On a traditional toyota (and most honda) automatic, it is.  I'd guess most Toyota autos are good for a lot longer than that.

[...]

There's 11 2018 & 2019 Corolla's nationwide for sale on autotempest right now that have in excess of 175kmiles on them, 3 of which are in excess of 250kmi.  Seems like they're good for it?

I was going to chime in and say something along the lines of "What about the Fiat 500?", but what happened to that car? They're $35,000 now, and they're all electric? Do we all remember the Abarth? And how like... half of this forum owned them?

So, I guess I'm in Camp Corolla.