So you want to build a BRZ/FRS Competitor

I saw a Mazda 2 at the Colorado National Tour event last weekend and it looked really cool. I was digging it.

I'm generally a RWD kinda guy, but I did spend a bit of time looking pretty hard for a decent Fiesta (the old one) before I went with the Celica. FWD can be cool.

But to the topic at hand- one of the cool things about the FRS is that it looks, well, pretty cool. That thing in the first post doesn't do it for me. I like that the FRS just looks like a sports coupe. Rally inspired cars are cool, but we have a load of those. This is a car like, well, my Celica made for today.

It's pretty high on my want list. Can't wait to see how it does in C Stock.

In reply to ProDarwin:

Sorry about that, I guess I should have been more clear. I agree with you and bravenrace and Ben on tranverse FWD efficiency. I disagree completely with brave's statement that efficiency is what pushed FWD into production. It's cost, pure and simple. I had to do an entire project on it in a manufacturing class in college for my business degree. The changes to the assembly line were the most dramatic since Ford's Model T line with standardized parts.

pilotbraden wrote:

Storz wrote: True Mazda frisbee fighter

I will buy one of those.

Interesting. I've been seriously considering making one of those, but wondered if it would be too weird. that picture really makes it look appealing though. Maybe.......

In reply to Javelin:

" I had to do an entire project on it in a manufacturing class in college for my business degree."

Well, then you are an expert!! Jav, you can think anything you want, I really makes no difference to me.

So what are the odds that:

Mazda will finally sell a fixed roof Miata or reintroduce the RX7?

Hyundai will make a smaller, lighter Genesis coupe at the next redesign?

Nissan will make a smaller, lighter Z car at the next redesign?

Honda does anything RWD again?

These seem to be the only cars that might give the FRS/BRZ any direct competition.

Jeeze didn't mean to spawn a FWD vs RWD debate. I was just bagging on it because it was related to the Juke (again lighter than I thought though not that light) and took its design cues from it....

In reply to The0retical:

It may, but shouldn't, surprise you to know that sometimes discussions get off track around here.

Javelin wrote: In reply to Chris_V: Yes, FWD *usually* results in better interior space, but the non-transverse Toronado certainly didn't benefit from that.

Actually it did. Ever look at the floor on one of those? No trans tunnel at all.

The AW11 used the motor from existing Toyota products, had a decent amount of luggage space (two trunks!) and was relatively affordable. It became too expensive/unpractical (like all Japanese sports cars of the era) and was killed off.

OK, Toyota screwed up and made the FR-S a Scion instead of a Toyota FT-86 (boneheads) but they have the opportunity to make good by re-issuing the MR2. Use the drivetrain they are already making for Lotus. The fact that 1 billion Camry's a week use the same motor should keep costs down. Now tweak the FR-S chassis to make it mid-engine (hey, is that two trunks I see?!?!) and position it above the base FR-S and below the turbo. (when it comes.) Add a supercharger and position that above the FR-S turbo.

I can dream!

In reply to Chris_V:

I had one of those. Loved that car. Didn't feel cheap at all.

pinchvalve wrote: The AW11 used the motor from existing Toyota products, had a decent amount of luggage space (two trunks!) and was relatively affordable. It became too expensive/unpractical (like all Japanese sports cars of the era) and was killed off. OK, Toyota screwed up and made the FR-S a Scion instead of a Toyota FT-86 (boneheads) but they have the opportunity to make good by re-issuing the MR2. Use the drivetrain they are already making for Lotus. The fact that 1 billion Camry's a week use the same motor should keep costs down. Now tweak the FR-S chassis to make it mid-engine (hey, is that two trunks I see?!?!) and position it above the base FR-S and below the turbo. (when it comes.) Add a supercharger and position that above the FR-S turbo. I can dream!

Man, I just want the FR-S to cost a couple thou less.

steronz wrote: The point is, there are people in this very thread who say that $27k for an FR-S is too expensive. "Give us a $14,000 RWD sports car!" they say. Imagine this situation. Your friend comes to you and says that he has $14k to buy a brand new car that's sporty and fun to drive, and also he read on the internet that if he buys something FWD he's not a true enthusiast. Do you a) tell him to forget what he reads on the internet and buy a Mazda2, which meets all his other criteria and would be perfectly enjoyable on a racetrack, or b) tell him to keep driving the Grand Marquis he got from his dead grandmother while saving up for an FR-S and spending his spare time complaining on the internet about how nobody builds $14,000 RWD sports cars anymore?

http://gazoo.com/racing/english/grmn/lineup/frhh.asp

http://gazoo.com/racing/english/grmn/carlist/cardetail_frhh.asp

http://gazoo.com/movieinfo/app/playmovie.asp?fPT=http://toyota2.pod.tv/flash/cars/132.flv&vID=291&pMode=autoPlay&Rnd=0.902779390359103

oldeskewltoy wrote:

steronz wrote: The point is, there are people in this very thread who say that $27k for an FR-S is too expensive. "Give us a $14,000 RWD sports car!" they say. Imagine this situation. Your friend comes to you and says that he has $14k to buy a brand new car that's sporty and fun to drive, and also he read on the internet that if he buys something FWD he's not a true enthusiast. Do you a) tell him to forget what he reads on the internet and buy a Mazda2, which meets all his other criteria and would be perfectly enjoyable on a racetrack, or b) tell him to keep driving the Grand Marquis he got from his dead grandmother while saving up for an FR-S and spending his spare time complaining on the internet about how nobody builds $14,000 RWD sports cars anymore?

I http://gazoo.com/racing/english/grmn/lineup/frhh.asp http://gazoo.com/racing/english/grmn/carlist/cardetail_frhh.asp http://gazoo.com/movieinfo/app/playmovie.asp?fPT=http://toyota2.pod.tv/flash/cars/132.flv&vID=291&pMode=autoPlay&Rnd=0.902779390359103

I would tell him that life is all about compromises and that he should settle for the FWD.

I would also remind him that he is a grown-up and while the internet is a good research tool, he should make up his own mind

Mazda 2 base price $ 14500 Ford Fiesta base price $ 13200

iceracer wrote: Mazda 2 base price $ 14500 Ford Fiesta base price $ 13200

That's for the Fiesta sedan though, possibly the second ugliest car you can buy right now (behind the Versa, naturally).

Hooray another FWD/RWD debate!

Lol!

Honestly, the main FWD handicap isnt FWD, it's weight distribution. I guess being FWD would be the second biggest handicap.

I read that Toyota and BMW are looking into building a sports car.

ProDarwin wrote:

Do you think that thing is rear driven?

In reply to BAMF:

I would guess AWD for maximum thrust in slippery situations.

BAMF wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

Do you think that thing is rear driven?

I'd say Ace and Gary are definitely "rear driven" ...........

iceracer wrote: I read that Toyota and BMW are looking into building a sports car.

still waiting for the Miata-based Alfa Spider, personally.

All the goodness of the Miata without the looks of the Miata.

Alternately, all the looks of an Alfa, without the reliability of an Italian car.

Storz wrote: True Mazda frisbee fighter

It looks just like a gremlin

(I'm not implying that this is a bad thing)

Gremlin has cooler driveline options using factory parts though...