In reply to Boost_Crazy :
If it wasn't for weather, mopeds.
In reply to Boost_Crazy :
If it wasn't for weather, mopeds.
turtl631 said:I think part of the ongoing obsession with range is that Tesla's quoted range numbers are pretty optimistic and involved flogging your battery, cold weather affects it significantly, and any attachments like roof rack or trailer hitch affect it significantly.
I'm in the process of trying to convince myself that we can replace our CX-5 family car with a Model Y, but it may be dicey for camping and hiking trips. Cool Wisconsin weather, limited charging options in rural parts of the state, and a big range hit if we were to say toss two kayaks on the roof and some bikes on a trailer hitch rack. And for a family car, what is possible may not be ideal. Some of the trips that we have done recently would require a detour for charging and if that were to interrupt a 2-year-old's nap, the pain is much greater than just an extra half hour for our trip. But this is for primary family car ( two kids ) and for many people with no kids or who have another vehicle for family hauling, I think current range options are fine. At least in the world of Tesla, superchargers are sufficiently widely distributed and functional. From what I have read electrify America etc is still more likely to have broken chargers at a station. I suppose ultimately I would like to see manufacturers focus heavily on efficiency but continue to offer different size battery packs for different scenarios. Rivian is supposed to have three different packs for their upcoming truck and SUV I believe.
Ultimately I just want a midsize 350-400-mi range EV station wagon, anyone with me?
Chrysler has the Pacifica Hybrid, with some small EV range. VW has announced their ID Buzz, that super cool van. I predict we have our choice of 400 mile range EV people haulers in five years. My kids want the ID Buzz thing like nothing else (and so do I actually).
tuna55 said:Chrysler has the Pacifica Hybrid, with some small EV range. VW has announced their ID Buzz, that super cool van. I predict we have our choice of 400 mile range EV people haulers in five years. My kids want the ID Buzz thing like nothing else (and so do I actually).
These PHEV's make so much sense to me. I know there is the added complexity and the fact that you still have an ICE... but the ability to never gas up except on these trips makes so much sense to me. Even a 10 mile range on electric would take care of most trips; 50 mile would take care of 99% of my driving. And if I run out of juice? Find the nearest Dinoco station.
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:tuna55 said:Chrysler has the Pacifica Hybrid, with some small EV range. VW has announced their ID Buzz, that super cool van. I predict we have our choice of 400 mile range EV people haulers in five years. My kids want the ID Buzz thing like nothing else (and so do I actually).
These PHEV's make so much sense to me. I know there is the added complexity and the fact that you still have an ICE... but the ability to never gas up except on these trips makes so much sense to me. Even a 10 mile range on electric would take care of most trips; 50 mile would take care of 99% of my driving. And if I run out of juice? Find the nearest Dinoco station.
When we replaced our 2005 ody with a 2010 ody a couple years ago (right when the pacifica hybrids came out) we almost almost almost got the pacifica hybrid. But we didn't want to eat the depreciation on a brand new vehicle. Coincidentally, the family we bought the 2010 ody from was selling it so they could buy a pacifica hybrid. haha.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:When we replaced our 2005 ody with a 2010 ody a couple years ago (right when the pacifica hybrids came out) we almost almost almost got the pacifica hybrid. But we didn't want to eat the depreciation on a brand new vehicle. Coincidentally, the family we bought the 2010 ody from was selling it so they could buy a pacifica hybrid. haha.
We bought our '17 Kia new, in 2018. We looked at the Pacifica, but not the hybrid. Why? We couldn't find one. At all. I couldn't negotiate on one, because it didn't seem to exist in the flesh within 300 miles.
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:tuna55 said:Chrysler has the Pacifica Hybrid, with some small EV range. VW has announced their ID Buzz, that super cool van. I predict we have our choice of 400 mile range EV people haulers in five years. My kids want the ID Buzz thing like nothing else (and so do I actually).
These PHEV's make so much sense to me. I know there is the added complexity and the fact that you still have an ICE... but the ability to never gas up except on these trips makes so much sense to me. Even a 10 mile range on electric would take care of most trips; 50 mile would take care of 99% of my driving. And if I run out of juice? Find the nearest Dinoco station.
Traditional hybrids make a ton of sense to me. Cheaper than PHEV's, but still significantly better mileage than their ICE only counterparts. Plus, you can do what the Toyota and Ford have both done - add AWD by driving the back wheels with an electric motor only. No need for a center diff, driveshaft, or the associated efficiency hit.
The frustrating part is they often don't sell in high enough volume for me to trust them, except for the Prius. For example, I am looking at Escapes right now. Hybrids are very thin on the ground and I can't find much battery replacement info - at least not enough to give me the confidence to own one over the ICE only version as an only car (I would happily own one in a 2 vehicle household).
this group is entirely too logical.
People WANT range in EV's. They don't NEED it.
It's all about eliminating range anxiety for adoption of the tech and people who don't want to change their habits (or more importantly.. worry that they might have to). At this price range, these vehicles represent a luxury. Compromises should not have to be made. A true 500+ mile range means never having to even think about where to find a charging place while on a trip. Just go. Cars were once a symbol of freedom, and removing the range anxiety component keeps these things in that realm.
Further, people keep referencing pee breaks, or snack breaks, etc. I feel like that is apples/oranges. At this point our infrastructure means a requirement to seek out charging points, as opposed to just driving until a passenger has to pee. Until charge points are as ubiquitous as gas stations or fast food restaurant bathroom availability, nobody wants to HAVE to pre-plan their bathroom break points. (see freedom concept above)
I look forward to 500+ mile range EV's. ...and the luxury segment bringing it is exactly where it should prevail. Let the economy boxes and commuter specials have "adequate" range for penny pinchers. Let the luxury segment remove all limitations that potential EV buyers might fret.
In reply to xflowgolf (Forum Supporter) :
Very good summary, with one important (to me) implication.
The sooner we can have super long range full sized cars and truck-like things, the sooner we can have Miata-like cars with a 200-250 mile range. Which is the thing I am really looking forward to.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to xflowgolf (Forum Supporter) :
Very good summary, with one important (to me) implication.
The sooner we can have super long range full sized cars and truck-like things, the sooner we can have Miata-like cars with a 200-250 mile range. Which is the thing I am really looking forward to.
agreed. The commoditization of battery packs and motors will lead to some interesting future hot rods. There's already at least one "Tesla powered" E30 I've followed the build on Instagram.
To my prior point, I also fear Cadillac missed the mark on their initial marketing of the new Lyriq, as all the headlines I saw mentioned the 300+ mile range. Executives have since said they expect mid 300's or even 400+ range, but that's a big difference in hype factor for a major debut. Neat looking vehicle though.
Check out Lucids PU......pretty dang awesome .......more appealing sensical than the TesLa coming from an owner of a 2003 LB7 duramax.
Here's another way to look at the range issue.
Yesterday I happened to need to get gas while I was out and about. Out of interest from this thread, I timed it.
4 minutes from when the car stopped to when I hooked the pump back on the holder, credit card sale, didnt go inside, didnt wash windshield, etc. Basically as fast as the thing could dispense 16.6 gallons of premium. But I was 'stopped' more like 15 minutes. I happened to be between work conf calls, so I spent some time dicking with my phone.
So let's say you have a 350 mile range, EV or ICE . That means at least every 300 miles or so you need to fill up. In a 12k mile year, that's 40 or more fillups, and at 4 minutes each, that's 160 minutes. at 10 minutes each that's 400 minutes. So with an ICE car, let's assume you spend about 6 hours a year waiting for the gas pump.
With an electric car that charges at home, you do have the added time of plugging and unplugging every time you park at home. That's maybe what - 10 extra seconds? Maybe someone with an EV can chime in on this. Assume 15 seconds, 2x per day, for 300 days a year is 150 minutes.
Finally, it looks like an Tesla 'roadtrip' charge at a tesla supercharger station is about 30 minutes. So each trip you have over 300 mi in a single day adds 26 minutes. 360-150 = 210, 210 / 26 ~= 8. So therefore if you have less than 8 single days of 300 miles or more, you wait less for an EV to fill up over the year than an ICE, even though you wait a little more on the road trip days.
/nerding out
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:With an electric car that charges at home, you do have the added time of plugging and unplugging every time you park at home. That's maybe what - 10 extra seconds?
/nerding out
Yes this is huge as well. I'm a heavy commuter (well pre-Covid anyways...) roughly 70 miles each way to my office, so I rack up almost 40K per year on average. Driving a 30+ mpg diesel with a 500+ mile tank range means I only have to stop every 3 days or so. But I'm in Michigan... and winter weather/slop sucks standing outside in February, and with a long commute, that's time I'd rather not spend standing outside pumping fuel. Charging at home would mean zero time spent at fueling stations standing in E36 M3 weather except for those really rare long range trip exceptions like you mentioned. That's a big win that isn't measured in "fuel savings" or "time wasted".
I am resurrecting this.
As the Lucid Motors gets closer to the Lucid Air product launch on Sept. 9th, more details are being released that I could not share before.
The performance is bonkers. 9.9 second quarter mile.
To address comments by some of you, the range is more than just a bigger battery. There are gains in efficiency and packaging that I think are pretty cool.
I hope you all find this interesting.
Type Q said:
I hope you all find this interesting.
Yes, indeed!
In reply to Type Q :
Well that's pretty neat. Even capable of V2V? I'm not sure if it'll take off, but what the hell right?
Seems like their motors are Axial flux; I hope to see a Moody's article soon and complete teardown over what makes it so different.
Pretty impressive! I didn't realize there was a Formula E connection. That makes the claims a bit less "vapor ware" and a bit more believable for me.
At this point it's clear Lucid is coming to market, and I'll have to do some research into that manufacturer- data on battery use is a BIG deal here.
I just wish some of the other companies like Byton were in the same boat.
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