Toyman1: Never heard it put that way. Oddly appropriate. Kind of like saying that fools and the incautious are the sacrificial lambs of the world.
Toyman1: Never heard it put that way. Oddly appropriate. Kind of like saying that fools and the incautious are the sacrificial lambs of the world.
AngryCorvair wrote: Tinfoil hat brigade postulates that the teens are somehow connected to local developers looking for a way to NIMBY the track into the history books...
Because teenagers breaking, entering, and messing around in closed facilities is a completely unprecedented crime and makes no sense whatsoever.
This is like that time I got a speeding ticket, which was clearly a conspiracy by oh hell I can't even make up anything so critically stupid as that conspiracy theory so I am just giving up. Nevermind.
kanaric wrote:Whoa, really? So real consequences that really happened in real life, just now, were somehow unfair?lol so if one of the kids dies he deserved to die then? Served him right the bastard.
The concept of "deserve" is nonsense when it comes to risks. Does someone "deserve" to die for breaking and entering? No. Is dying a possible outcome of flying around on a kart and running headfirst into a tree? Absolutely.
HiTempguy wrote:Driven5 wrote: All kids still do some kind of stupid E36 M3.There is some sort of logical fallacy here. Anyone care to throw it out there for me? Surprisingly enough, not all kids are stupid E36 M3 heads who ruin other people's stuff/have no thought of the consequences of their actions.
I was a rigidly scrupulous individual, thinking of others' concern to a fault (never played loud music because other people may not want to hear what I was listening to, for example), never stole from anybody, never broke in to private property, etc.
That doesn't mean I never did stupid E36 M3 that makes me look back and wonder how I still have all of my limbs/fingers/senses. Usually involved either fire or bikes... everything is more fun with wheels or fire.
Kreb wrote: ... Let's leave religion out of this. That's a line not to be crossed on this forum.
Agreed, though I was watching closely the discussion about what "deserving" meant, as the two are very closely related, too much so. Moving on...
Sucks, but we used to have this thing called natural selection. Do something dumb, expect something equally dumb to happen back. Like other things in the news, bow up to a cop but everyone gets pissed when the cop shoots? Just natural selection...
Toyman1 I like your perspective
Toyman01 wrote: This is going to read kind of harsh, but reality trumps feeling every time. They got exactly what they deserved. They made the choices that landed them in the hospital. They knew what they were doing was wrong and unlawful but they did it anyway. I don't feel sorry for them in the least. It doesn't matter that some kids get away with it, it doesn't matter what we did as kids. Stupid has consequences and sometimes the universe extracts a harsh payment for it. Personally, I'm glad they stole the carts, crashed them, and had to be air freighted to the hospital. I'm glad they were hurt, I'm glad they are being plastered all over the news and websites. They provided me with another perfect example to show my children, especially the 16yo, that stupid decisions have painful, life altering, and sometimes fatal consequences. The more life lessons I can provide them, that hurt or kill other people, the better the chances that my kids won't be use as an example by other parents. The example that left a lasting impression on me, was a beautiful girl in my high school. She was as pretty and as popular as they come. Just a group of kids, cutting school, out having fun in the national forest. A little beer, a little hooning, and her head was crushed by the bed rail of the pickup she was riding in the back of. Popped it like a zit. There were 8 people in that truck when it flipped. The driver lost control of it, on a dirt road, in the middle of nowhere. They were all injured, but their injuries were nothing compared to the memory of that beautiful head, smashed flat. They were there for hours, dealing with the pain of their injuries and the realization of what they had done, before the next car passed. Their descriptions of that day probably saved a lot of lives, including mine. They are the #1 reason I have never climbed behind the wheel of anything impaired, or in a vehicle with a impaired driver. One of the few lesson I learned that didn't cost me any effort or pain. So, here is a big thank you to all the stupid and unlucky people in the world. Your examples have been saving the lives of the smart and fortunate for generations. Know that your pain, suffering and life wasn't wasted. I for one appreciate it.
yes that was a bit harsh … BUT it really needed saying … glad you're stand up enough to not be afraid to do the saying (how's that for murdering the queens english ?)
but still … thanks for saying this
Toyman01 wrote: Personally, I'm glad they stole the carts, crashed them, and had to be air freighted to the hospital. I'm glad they were hurt, I'm glad they are being plastered all over the news and websites.
I generally agree with what you're trying to say, but not at all the verbiage you chose to use for this statement. Pragmatism and understanding the value in being able to learn from others' mistakes can actually still go hand-in-hand with empathy. Putting them into mutually exclusive terms is nothing more than an unfortunate choice...One I am continually surprised that especially any parent could make.
It's one thing to be 'glad' not to have have to learn a lesson the hard way, it's another entirely to be 'glad' for somebody to go through it. I hope you never have to know what it's like for others to be 'glad' at the pain your child and family experience, but rather you receive their empathy...Even if they are also able to learn something valuable as the result of the bad decision(s) that led to it. Remember this statement you made, if ever you find yourself on the other side of that emotional fence you've built.
Datsun1500 wrote: If I run onto a racetrack wearing black and get killed, it's my fault. If I rob a store and get shot by the police, it's my fault. If I hit a tree on a stolen go kart, it's my fault. Does it suck they got hurt? Yes, but they knew the risk. Sometimes stuff goes wrong and people get hurt. Suing someone else because your stupid idea went bad is what people have an issue with.
Yes. We can forgive/empathize/etc the person, but not the actions. For the actions they must be punished like you I would.
We all seem to expect the parents to sue the race track, but has there been any update on this?
Oh, my brother once knocked down the fence and took a lap of Santa Anita (horse) race track in his truck. He got caught for that one.
Knurled wrote: That doesn't mean I never did stupid E36 M3 that makes me look back and wonder how I still have all of my limbs/fingers/senses. Usually involved either fire or bikes... everything is more fun with wheels or fire.
So let me get this straight:
Your justification for committing crimes and the consequences thereof is supported by you rode around on a bicycle like a wildman at worst breaking some sort of cross-walk bylaws?
Okee dokee man. BTW, we'd be saying the same thing about you as we are about them if something happened to you, but since there was no crime involved, we'd probably be a bit more sympathetic to the fact that you truly were just being stupid, not a stupid-shiny happy person.
Driven5 wrote: Remember this statement you made, if ever you find yourself on the other side of that emotional fence you've built.
Been there, looked at said family member/friend, said "you f'ing idiot" and carried on with my life. It wasn't even that hard to do! 
In reply to Driven5:
If it ever happens to one of my kids, yes it will suck, but I will gladly put them on a pedestal as an example of what not to do, in hopes of saving countless other children. If my life, or even one of my children's lives, can save others, I will be happy with that and content that their life served a purpose.
Life sucks sometimes, I've accepted that and am comfortable with it.
Dr. Hess wrote: We all seem to expect the parents to sue the race track, but has there been any update on this?
Oh, no, I expect the track (or the track's insurance company) to sue the parents.
HiTempguy wrote:Knurled wrote: That doesn't mean I never did stupid E36 M3 that makes me look back and wonder how I still have all of my limbs/fingers/senses. Usually involved either fire or bikes... everything is more fun with wheels or fire.So let me get this straight: Your justification for committing crimes and the consequences thereof
doesn't exist.
Sure is a lot of speculation here about lawsuits...I don't understand getting all whipped up about it, without any actual facts to back up the argument.
Latest report is the injuries to the kids are 'non-life threatening'.
stuart in mn wrote: Sure is a lot of speculation here about lawsuits...I don't understand getting all whipped up about it, without any actual facts to back up the argument. Latest report is the injuries to the kids are 'non-life threatening'.
A co-workers wife let her car roll into a person in front of her at maybe 0.25 mph. She was fine, but a couple of weeks later was having all kinds of neck problems. She got $10k.
Their true condition may have nothing to do with any future litigation. It rarely does. If LMP goes after the kids for damages, I would be amazed if the parents don't sue. There is a real reason why a lot of vendors of British car parts in England will not sell to anyone on the US.
Knurled wrote: doesn't exist.
I'm well aware of that, hence my need to point it out. Jeez
spitfirebill wrote:stuart in mn wrote: Sure is a lot of speculation here about lawsuits...I don't understand getting all whipped up about it, without any actual facts to back up the argument. Latest report is the injuries to the kids are 'non-life threatening'.Their true condition may have nothing to do with any future litigation. It rarely does. If LMP goes after the kids for damages, I would be amazed if the parents don't sue.
My point is: why waste time arguing about hypothetical lawsuits that haven't even happened yet?
Toyman01 wrote: If my life, or even one of my children's lives, can save others, I will be happy with that and content that their life served a purpose.
Agreed...But being glad that something good can manage to come out of something bad, is not at all the same as being glad that something bad happened in the first place.
Toyman01 wrote: This is going to read kind of harsh, but reality trumps feeling every time. They got exactly what they deserved. They made the choices that landed them in the hospital. They knew what they were doing was wrong and unlawful but they did it anyway. I don't feel sorry for them in the least. It doesn't matter that some kids get away with it, it doesn't matter what we did as kids. Stupid has consequences and sometimes the universe extracts a harsh payment for it. Personally, I'm glad they stole the carts, crashed them, and had to be air freighted to the hospital. I'm glad they were hurt, I'm glad they are being plastered all over the news and websites.
As a parent, seeing my kids suffer is one of the hardest things for me, as with any parent. Seeing any kids suffer is hard for me. They are 15. they made a mistake. They didn't get what they "deserve", they did something stupid and got hurt. You don't get to decide from your seat what other kids deserve. If you saw this happen you'd be like everyone else doing what you could to help them, and save them from their mistakes. You're an adult. they are 15.
Thank god my parents didn't teach me this attitude.
Toyman01 wrote: If my life, or even one of my children's lives, can save others, I will be happy with that and content that their life served a purpose.
That's horseE36 M3. No parent is going to be content their kid died and is a life lesson for another kid. I dream my kids will serve an amazing purpose to this world. dying in a stupid accident is not on that list.
Thanks for leaving me with this garbage to think about right before I leave work.
Driven5 wrote:Toyman01 wrote: If my life, or even one of my children's lives, can save others, I will be happy with that and content that their life served a purpose.Agreed...But being glad that something good can manage to come out of something bad, is not at all the same as being glad that something bad happened in the first place.
I'll concede that point.
In reply to Datsun1500:
Did i say ruin my day?
If there are things that bother me, ive been told by my wife I tend to think a little too much about it.
In reply to Datsun1500:
I like to be rubbed bottom up, not top down 
I've known some down right evil 15 year old kids. Truly terrible people. I don't know these kids, so I can't speak to their character. The only thing I do know is that they broke into a place they shouldn't have been, stole property that wasn't theirs, damaged said property and got seriously hurt in the process. Because of the actions that I do know about I have no sympathy for the results of those actions. None.
Do I think they got what they deserved? No, I wouldn't say that.
Am I glad it happened? No, not for anyone involved.
I hope the kids recover. I hope no one sues anyone. I hope the parents make the kids pay restitution without the need for courts getting involved.
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