Spacers and hubcentric adapters

I'm planning to run some Subaru wheels on my Pontiac VibeGT. The specs are nearly identical, but slightly different, and I'd like to set this up as properly as possible for daily on-road use. Since the center bore is slightly larger on the Subie wheel, I want to run hubcentric ring adapters, and since the offset is slightly higher, I'd like to bring it down a bit with 5mm spacers.

Running hub adapters and a separate spacer doesn't seem ideal, but maybe I'm overthinking it. 

Question: Can I find/spec a one-piece adapter/spacer that will align on the stock hub specs bring my center bore up to Subie specs, while spacing the wheel out 5mm? A 54.1-to-56.1 5x100 5mm spacer? 

Stock VibeGT specs: 
54.1mm center bore
5x100 BCD
7x17 
ET45

Subaru Crosstrek specs:
56.1mm center bore (+2mm)
5x100 BCD
7x17
ET48 (+3mm)

Pretty sure ive seen those on ebay. Look for 3mm 5x100 spacers. 

However, the centering ring part may not be necessary. Ive always been told that they are only there to ease installation. I have run many sets of wheels with too large a center bore, and depended upon the logs to make things concentric. With a little care on install, never any problem. 

That being said, i ordered hubcentric spacers for the Prius  to make me feel better about things 

Duster is correct. My only addition is to make sure you use the correct type of lug nuts for the wheels. Most use a standard conical (aka tapered) seat, but some (I'm looking at you, Honda Odyssey) use a ball seat that is not compatible with conical.

Does that car use wheel bolts or studs?

It doesn't seem hard but if it's just wheel notks at stock length you'd need to calculate thread engagement and that stuff.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

I ordered fresh M12 x 1.5 cone seat lugs to match the Vibe thread pitch and Subaru seat. 
 

I'll keep searching on eBay for an all-in-one adapter, but generally speaking, a flat 3-5mm spacer will work fine? No wobble issues at speed if I tighten the lugs carefully (star pattern, proper torque, etc)?

In reply to z31maniac :

Studs.

Is there a certain standard length or thread count for proper engagement?

^^ Ok I just looked this up. Thread depth must be at least the diameter of the bolt, so 12mm minimum. I'll refit the wheels and measure to see how much stud is exposed. This will let me know if I can run any spacers at all.

Update:

So my stock wheels and the new wheels are exactly the same thickness at the mounting surface. It's difficult for me to measure to the MM, but a direct comparison marking a paper gauge shows no difference in depth. Likewise, the exposed length of stud when either wheel is mounted measures the same.  However, this is less than the minimum thread depth, when measured at the face of the wheel. The stock lug bolts are flat-seat, but they have an extended thread collar that inserts into the bolt hole on the wheel. So it would appear that using ET bolts will give me the same thread depth as the stock lug nuts. 

So what I may end up doing is returning my standard cone seat lug nuts, and ordering ET cone seat nuts to achieve the necessary stock thread engagement. 

I've gotten spacers like you're describing from Motorsport Tech before.  They'll make basically any spacer you want. 

I use a set on the front of the E38 to run E39 wheels up front.  I've run spacers like that in both 5mm and 10mm thickness and adapting from a 72.6mm hub to a 74.1mm wheel.  Basically a spacer and centering ring in one. 

I would be truly surprised if you could notice that small a spacer.  I would absolutely bolt them up and see how I felt about them.  That thin of a spacer is cheap regardless but I'd see how they actually fit first.  I typically don't sweat ~5mm or a bit more offset difference unless it is a clearance issue.

We need pics to help evaluate this.  You can also look at this on willtheyfit.com to help you have a better grasp of what dimensions are changing.

I bought some aftermarket BMW wheels with a 74.1mm hub bore to run on my 72.6mm hubs. I could never get rid of the vibration. I picked up hub centric rings for them and the vibration stopped.

I have run non hubcentric wheels and/or spacers for years.  The center bore is only for helping you get the lugs started, the lug nuts do 100% of the centering.

You can see for yourself: put a hubcentric wheel on, snug one lug nut.  Snug another lug nut and watch how much the wheel moves on the hub.

Now. Snug a third lug nut, and watch the wheel move a second time, and the first lug nut will be loose.

This is why I am super critical about installing wheels properly.

Even more fun is to drive around the block and check lug nut torque.  If you put the wheels on with insufficient care, four of the lug nuts will take a bit to come back up to proper torque.

MrMook said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Studs.

Is there a certain standard length or thread count for proper engagement?

^^ Ok I just looked this up. Thread depth must be at least the diameter of the bolt, so 12mm minimum. I'll refit the wheels and measure to see how much stud is exposed. This will let me know if I can run any spacers at all.

We use 1.5x diameter as a rule. 

There are a few places like tire rack that sell all kinds of hub bore converters in plastic cheap.

Centering rings are basically useless especially on a car that doesn't get frequent tire swaps. And I kind of doubt anyone makes a 1mm wall thickness ring. If they do I probably wouldn't trust it to not just get crushed into either the wheel or the hub.

Beauty of metric is the thread pitch is the number of mm that one full turn makes. So 12 mm dia and 1.5 pitch means you need 8 full turns to reach 12 mm thread engagement.

A little something from the BimmerWorld crew about wheel spacers.

By the way, I just had a spacer/wheel setup fail James' paper test....

Update on this old thread. This is partially for my own note-keeping, but it may help someone else as well. 

For my original quandry: Going from the stock center bore (on hub) to the larger center bore (of non-stock wheel), while also using a spacer: I spoke with a shop that sells H&R spacers and adapters, and their advice was to order spacers to fit my vehicle hub bore (54.1mm in my case), and place a separate hubcentric adapter ring on the outer flange of the spacer to bring the overall center bore up to the wheel specs. So I was overthinking it after all, and in my case the stack of parts looks like this:
Vehicle 54.1mm hub -->  Disk rotor --> 10mm spacer (54.1mm bore) --> 54.1mm-56.1mm hubcentric adapter --> Subaru wheel

A secondary issue that came up was lug thread engagement. The Vibe/Matrix use Toyota mag-seat style lug nuts, which don't need as long of a stud because the lug nut threads themselves insert deeper into the wheel than a cone or ball seat lug. The Subaru wheels I'm trying to run are designed for a cone-seat lug, and the bore of the wheel won't accommodate the Toyota style lug nut (or aftermarket "extended thread" lugs). Long story short, my stock studs are too short to run (probably any) wheel that is designed for a cone-seat lug, because there just won't be enough treads to engage. 

The solution I've arrived at is to install longer studs to accomodate the additonal threads the cone-seat lugs will require, along with additional room for spacers. This will open up many more wheel choices down the line.

Also, thank you to all who posted advice. Especially the Bimmerworld video about the paper test to ensure the hub/spacer flanges are mated properly.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Duster is correct. My only addition is to make sure you use the correct type of lug nuts for the wheels. Most use a standard conical (aka tapered) seat, but some (I'm looking at you, Honda Odyssey) use a ball seat that is not compatible with conical.

Porsche/VW/Audi use ball seats too

Longer wheel bolts are needed for Porsche alloy vs Porsche steel wheels, because the aluminum ones are thicker.

In reply to MrMook :

Glad to hear that the BimmerWorld video helped. Good, basic info in there that might help keep your wheel(s) attached to the car.