Spec classes back to the RA-1, why?

Just curious why the move back to the RA-1 from the R888 for a few of the Spec classes.

I think that it was something like "everybody hated the R888".

Or at least hated having to buy twice as many of them.

yes, the 2x blow up in tire budget was stifling for spec classes

which reminds me, I should dump my last set of r888's ...

Why 2x the number? Aren't they the same compound only a different tread?

Nope.

I really like my R888s.

Hmmmm?

This is interesting.

I have run both Toyo RA1s and the R888s on my vintage racer (Spridget). My tire size is 185-60/13.

I like them both and they seem very similar to me.

Costwise the 888s work out better because I don't have to pay to shave them and they're only a few bucks more (in my size). The RA1s need to be shaved or they don't last, even in my lightweight, 65 HP car (unless you're using them for rains).

Both the RA1s and the 888s I have carry the same UTQG numbers. "100 AA A" which means (among other things) that they are equally soft and should wear about equally.

The 888s I just ran last week have been on the car over a year and are still excellent. Guessing from my logbook, I'd say they have 1500 racing miles on them. I'll be running them at The Glen in two weeks with no hesitation.

I liked RA1s and have run them on several cars, but the need to shave them pushed me to the 888s.

In reply to ZOOMiata:

In that case you can probably find a lot of Spec Miata racers that will make you a pretty good deal on a whole bunch of them

wbjones wrote: In reply to ZOOMiata: In that case you can probably find a lot of Spec Miata racers that will make you a pretty good deal on a whole bunch of them

Except that I'm interested in the 225/45/15 size, rather than the 205/50/15s.

It's my understanding that the compound in the R888 is fussier - it grips better up to temperature, but not as well when cold. They're also not immune to heat-cycling like RA1s are so they don't last as long.

Sounds good to me. I'll just buy up whatever R888s people have lying around and use them for practice.

The Spec 944 guys found that not only were the RA1's a better performing tire, they also out lasted the R888's.

To the point that anyone on R888's, even new ones, were at a significant disadvantage to anyone running RA1's, even if they were wasted.

sounds like win to me

laz wrote: yes, the 2x blow up in tire budget was stifling for spec classes which reminds me, I should dump my last set of r888's ...

I might be interested in taking those off your hands. I think I'm about through my NT-01s, and need something new. I'm sure I'll see you at an event in the next couple of months. You run 205/50/15, right?

Simply put, the R888 was not an improved tire over the RA-1. And I will give kudos to Toyo for stepping up and returning the RA-1 for our use and not forcing the R888 down our throats. It's pretty rare for a tire manufacturer to listen to a group like amateur spec racers, but they did.

The funny thing is that Toyo never declared the RA-1 was gone. It's always been listed, and I've never not been able to buy a set.

Thanks for the insight fellas. I just read that little tidbit in this months GRM and wanted to know why.

Keith Toyo told me several times the RA1 was dead and gone.

They also told Discount Tire the same thing when I tried to order a set after you posted that it wasn't dead.

But they also told me that the R888 and the RA1 were the same tire just with different treads

Just out of curiosity, does the RA-1 also come stickered up with dire warnings that it is not to be stored and shouldn't be used below freezing? At over here, that's what R888 come with...

Even the R1R comes with those warnings. I'm still trying to find the cheapest 245/35/17 R1R.

Isn't that pretty much the standard warning for any R-comp tire?

I just read somewhere that people were posting faster lap times on the RA1 than the 888...

carguy123 wrote: Keith Toyo told me several times the RA1 was dead and gone. They also told Discount Tire the same thing when I tried to order a set after you posted that it wasn't dead. But they also told me that the R888 and the RA1 were the same tire just with different treads

I kept on contacting Toyo (not resellers, but Toyo USA) and asking, and they kept saying the tire was still available. It was never removed from their site. Weird. Last time I bought some was August 2008, I've been burning through those ones for the past year.

I think Toyo's the only company that actually tells people not to drive their R comps in sub-freezing temperatures, but it's not a good idea with any of them. I suspect there's some history to why Toyo is so adamant about it.

I am the Arizona 944 spec director and have been testing/running both R888 and RA-1. In our size 225/50 R15 on a 2600lbs /135 whp car the RA-1 is superior.

The R888 could be made to run as fast as the RA-1, but it takes different settings for camber and overall chassis balance. This is not big deal, but important. However they are also alot more sensitive to camber than the RA-1. So they are harder to drive.

The can also go away during a race if you slide them alot. This can be track specific however as at National Championships at Miller I ran R888's and the never went away. This weekend at PIR in Phoenix and they did go off.

Bottom line is the RA-1 will last twice as long as the R888. Both tires cycle out before the rubber is all gone. A Prime RA-1 is similar in speed to a Prime R888. It is easier to get all the speed from the RA-1.

R888 can go off during a run if you slide too much. R888 are faster when shaved. I have only shaved one set so I can't say this reduces tire life or not. Given how they cycle out I don't believe it will as mine would cycle out with lots of rubber left (unshaved) so may cycle out when the rubber is gone when shaved.

The RA-1 is superior to the R888.