‘Sport Sedan’ for 15k?

After owning and selling a number of fun cars prior to having a family (Saab 900, WRX, NC Miata, 996, 911sc), life has finally slowed down where I would like to add another car to compliment my practical, but not fun truck.

Planning on using it as mostly a really fun street car 3 seasons out of the year with a fair amount of autocross thrown in. My budget is around 15k (so no Corolla GR...my latest obsession).

Im looking for something that is:

-Four doors: life has slowed down, but I still want the practicality of a sedan with the family.

-Light weight/engaging: I really enjoy the slow car fast, not fast car slow. 

-Rear wheel drive

-Manual

-Reliable/DIY friendly: Don't mind doing a few things, but I definitely enjoy driving the car more than wrenching on the car. 
 

Currently I've been looking at the different generations of BMW 3 series. It seems that a well sorted e30-e90 all cost about the same. I have a hard time buying a 40 year car for the same price as a 10 year old car... there's something about getting a car that's bottomed out on the depreciation curve.

-E30 318/325: These seem to be lots of fun, and can be DIY'd, but they are getting really old and I'm worried it will need lots of frequent work to keep it on the road.

-E36 M3/4/5: My top choice. To be honest my only concern is the interior is as bad as everyone says, and will fall apart as it continues to age. Also, these are getting pretty old...

-E46 ZHP: Scared off from the engine issues, and getting heavier.

-E90 328/330: I really like that these are bottoming out on pricing and the interior is fantastic, but it sounds like they are a bore to drive, not great to autocross, and can become a maintenance headache.

Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Non BMW options? What 3 series do you recommend? 
Thanks!

Has to be rwd? I'm out. 

Are 4 doors truly needed? If not, the E82 128i is very good to drive and is under your budget. It's basically a short wheelbase E92 coupe. It's also done fairly well in SCCA STX. 
 

After buying one myself (6MT w/sport package) I was shocked with just how good this car is. It's literally good at everything and very engaging on a back road! The back seat isn't huge, but it's easily big enough for kids. 

doesn't meet your criteria, but since you threw the Corolla GR in the mix, a similar hot hatch... I've been happy with my 4-dr. mk6 Golf R as a daily driver.  

Manual, heated leather, in your price point.  AWD for winter hooning.  

Mine has a stock turbo/downpipe/exhaust, but upgraded intercooler, intake, and an APR Stg. 1 tune.. bumps power above 300hp/300tq. 

I'm at 165K and has been relatively trouble free.  

I'd be inclined to suggest a mk7 GTI, but figured FWD only wouldn't wet your whistle.  

Buy an E90 with a non-turbo engine and RWD (AWD sucks the fun out), add M3/1M suspension arms, poly rear subframe mounts (either inserts or full bushings), and good dampers (I prefer Koni Yellows over Bilsteins), align, and drive. It will probably take a while to find a good one, but they are out there.

02Pilot said:

Buy an E90 with a non-turbo engine and RWD (AWD sucks the fun out), add M3/1M suspension arms, poly rear subframe mounts (either inserts or full bushings), and good dampers (I prefer Koni Yellows over Bilsteins), align, and drive. It will probably take a while to find a good one, but they are out there.

are the non-turbo's the 330i? 328? 

xflowgolf (Forum Supporter) said:

02Pilot said:

Buy an E90 with a non-turbo engine and RWD (AWD sucks the fun out), add M3/1M suspension arms, poly rear subframe mounts (either inserts or full bushings), and good dampers (I prefer Koni Yellows over Bilsteins), align, and drive. It will probably take a while to find a good one, but they are out there.

are the non-turbo's the 330i? 328? 

Correct, the 328i & 330i are the non-turbo versions. IIRC the 330i was offered in 2006 only and was replaced in 2007 by the 328i. Technically they both have the same N52 (or N51 depending on where it was sold) 3.0L inline-6 engine. The only difference is the 330i has the 3-stage DISA intake manifold whereas the 328i has the single stage IM. That 3SIM (with appropriate tune) bumps power up from 230hp (328i) up to 255hp (330i). 
 

My only theory as to why BMW did that was because in 2006 the 330i was the top tier non-M 3-series (at least in the US). In 2007 BMW introduced the twin-turbo 300hp 335i. I'm pretty sure they just detuned the 328i using the cheap IM in order to help justify the hefty price bump between the NA powered cars and the 335i- going from 230hp to 300hp sounds like a much bigger jump than going from 255hp to 300hp; ignoring the fact that the turbo N54 was criminally underrated (they made closer to 330hp stock). 
 

Fortunately the 3SIM came on loads of other cars and can be picked up for dirt cheap (I think I paid $100 for mine). 

since you've had an NC, and you don't mind a bit more care and feeding, then i would think an S2 RX8 (maybe even an R3 package) would be an excellent "small hauler" that's probably the lightest and most nimble of all the choices and a nice evolution of a platform you're already familiar with.

on the other side of the spectrum, a nice, ~100k mile CTS-V's hover right around that $15-18K mark.  definitely not nimble.

ATS sedan with 63k for $15

Sounds like a e36 or e46 zhp are your only options with those requirements. "lightweight" kills it for you.

Lexus IS, if you can find one. 

ATS or CTS(not V) could be interesting

I love the way my eE36 drives. The interior has 150k on it and the only issues I've had to fix are the glove box door and the headliner. Just give it good cooling system parts. 

I've never liked how the E46s drive. The getrag feels softer than the E36's ZF and you've got a clutch delay valve and poor(IMHO) e-throttle mapping. 

Another thought would be to import an altezza rs200z. Rwd double wishbones, <3000lbs. 

Not rwd but you could get a minty 4-door gsr sedan too.

The bmw choices are fine choices though.

I didn't realize the E46 ZHP had engine issues? It's like 100 less HP and doesn't rev as high as the S54 in the E46 M3.

I have an e36 m3/4/5 and have toyed with the idea of selling it.  I'd be happy to give you all the details if you'd like.   I'm in Los Angeles in case that makes or breaks it. 
 

How introverted are you or...What is your stance on smoking? - 525

The e36 interior thing seems to depend on color almost as much as how it was cared for. Dove interiors all seem to have deteriorated, black is 50/50 and tan is usually pulling a few seams at this point. The door cards though, on coupes those are all broken by now. Sedan door cards seem to have fared a little better

edit: what about a e39 528i sport?

z31maniac said:

I didn't realize the E46 ZHP had engine issues? It's like 100 less HP and doesn't rev as high as the S54 in the E46 M3.

It's no different than the normal 330 other than tune, no? I w0uldn't jump to an E36/46 if you want a fun/tossable 4dr unless you find a 4dr E36 M3. Given the above choices I probably would find a clean E30 325i and enjoy a little vintage. I liked my E46 325i sport pkg but as a daily. If I was looking for an "extra" car I would look for something a little more special.

In reply to buzzboy :

Guy I've rallycrossed with has a stable of CTSs in various states of modification that he runs. Says the 6 likes to break things when the timing chain stretches from use, but they're amazingly stout cars. He showed me a pic of the amount of air he got in one and kept driving and I now expect I'll own one some day. 

E Series Merc but no manual trans.  .   .. Foot room is not great in the back but not THAT bad.  I drove a 2014 E350 and was pleasantly surprised at just how nice a car it was. Not a true sports more of a sporty sedan.  To me it was sporty enough.  I DD a cls550 (4000 lbs) and the E350 has roughly the same curb weight and yet the E350 felt smaller and lighter.  It was a nice place to be.  I would stick to the post 2012 cars.

There are also bigger engine choices up to the E63 but I would stick to the E350 unless you want to up your budget.  Better to get a good E350 than a clapped out E63

Just to tempt you. . . .. LOL

4Matic
https://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/2014/e-350-4matic-sedan-4d/

RWD
https://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/2014/e-350-sedan-4d/

breaqnaway said:

-E46 ZHP: Scared off from the engine issues, and getting heavier.

I've owned two e46 ZHPs (and 3 other non-ZHP e46 models) and am not familiar with any engine issues. I think the M54 engine has proven to be extremely reliable. And the car itself is absolutely wonderful. I liked it much more than the multiple e36s that have cycled through my garage over the years.

Thanks for all the advice...though I'm less sure about which to go with. Sounds like the e36 interior isn't as bad as everyone says, the e46 are actually pretty stout, and the e30's are a ton of fun! No one has really recommended the e90's though....

Pretty committed to a manual, if it was my daily I would want an automatic, but I really enjoy rowing the gears in a light weight modestly powered car. I also really enjoying stepping the rear out and the driving dynamics of a rear wheel drive car. 
 

So how bad are the e30's to keep up on the maintenance?

breaqnaway said:

So how bad are the e30's to keep up on the maintenance?

Not bad and very DIY-able... But they're all old. At least 32 years old at this point (29 for the cabriolets).

Still, my Dad daily drives one and has another at the vacation home and overall maintenance and repairs for the pair are probably in the $500 range. But you have to put up with things like putting it on a trickle charger because over the past 3 decades it has developed a phantom load that we just cannot find, or replacing all the hoses and seals eventually - or just don't drive it in the rain. 

breaqnaway said:

No one has really recommended the e90's though....

That's not accurate. 02Pilot recommended a non-turbo E90... and if you didn't need 4-doors, I recommended an E82, which truly is just a short wheelbase E90. Many people refer to the E82 as a more modern E30. 
 

02Pilot's recommendation is spot on: non-turbo RWD E90 manual- with a set of 1M/M3 control arms, upgraded rear subframe bushings and upgraded dampers transforms these cars. If you need the 4-doors and bigger back seat, get the E90- but if you can get away with 2-doors and slightly smaller back seat, the E82 variant is lighter and more fun to pitch around. The vast majority of N52 E90 parts literally bolt right up to the N52 E82.