Lots of people doing the K swap. 220hp of 8,000rpm K24 fun.
I would like to find a good car with a bad motor. I have a used K24A2 I'll be freshening up for such a project. Seems to be more & more bad Frisbees all the time, which is sad but anything that's Subaru powered is on borrowed time IMO.
These remind me of the RX8. Great platform with a bad motor.
dean1484 said:These remind me of the RX8. Great platform with a bad motor.
That bums me out because I loved our old RX8 and sold it because it always felt like a time bomb. I was hoping these would fill the same need without the same fear.
My sympathies. I had the recall done already but was quite worried about this exact same outcome. It's been over a year, so I think I'm out of the woods.
The exact recall fix instructions are available online on forums. I think I found them on https://www.ft86club.com/forums/. The instructions are very specific about where the sealant should go. Might help your diagnosis plan.
There's a spot somewhere in the engine that can get clogged with sealant bits, reducing oil flow. A clogged passage might be the root cause of the oil pump failure.
Has anyone opened the oil pump up to see if anything is stuck inside of it?
Regarding that "serpentine belt couldn't turn the oil pump" canard, the FA20 drives the oil pump of the nose of the crank. See this video:
So while I'm hoping I won't have to be come this intimate with the FA20 in my BRZ, I think we can argue that if that oil pump stops turning, it'll be accompanied by a sudden increase in funny noises, following by dead silence.
If the oil pump stops turning, it's because the front (of the crank) fell off.
It's actually not that hard to get the timing cover off. The first FB engine I had apart, I kind of screwed up and set one bank 180 degrees off time. Turns out that the starter motor can barely turn over a "big bang" Subaru and without reprogramming the computer, it will only run on two cylinders anyway. Whoops. Half hour later, I had the cams retimed and the engine running.
LOTS of bolts but 3/8" impacts are your friend here. Also, epic levels of aggression due to embarassment at having missed a step in the chain setup. Also, all that silicone was still gooey so there was no tedious scraping and wire brushing.
dclafleur said:dean1484 said:These remind me of the RX8. Great platform with a bad motor.
That bums me out because I loved our old RX8 and sold it because it always felt like a time bomb. I was hoping these would fill the same need without the same fear.
I think if you get an engine after the valve spring recall and avoid the temptation to add forced induction you'll be fine. I'm just shy of 100,000 miles on my FR-S with nothing but oil changes. I have not done a track day in it but shift at 7k as often as possible.
In reply to parker :
Also, avoid E85. Lots of reports of the high pressure fuel pump getting very loud/squeaky. Not sure if this is a lubricity thing or just super high pressure all the time to cram more fuel through the injectors.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Interesting. I was thinking of going Flex Fuel on the BRZ, sounds like I might want to avoid that then.
Stock fuel pumps made squeaky/chirping noises. There was a TSB to fix the noisy fuel pumps. S-SB-0023-12 for FRS and 09-54-12 for BRZ. This fixed the problem for some others reported the noise came back.
Lots of people running E85 without issue. The chirping pump on the early cars was a noise, I'm not aware of it actually causing a problem. The noise just lets you know it's still working!
I used the openflash tablet to switch to e85 last spring. It's easy to find locally, so I didn't need a flex fuel sensor. No unusual squeaks for me over the six months of warm weather. But I've never had fuel system noise even with my 2013 since new.
So that's one data point for you.
In reply to Schmidlap :
You may want to see if they will share any photos of the engine they took as part of their diagnosis.
Has this problem been rectified on newer engines, or is this still an issue if you buy a brand new 86?
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
The valve spring recall? I believe that's a 2013 only issue.
I think that's correct. No spring recall on my 2015.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to parker :
Also, avoid E85. Lots of reports of the high pressure fuel pump getting very loud/squeaky. Not sure if this is a lubricity thing or just super high pressure all the time to cram more fuel through the injectors.
This is a new one for me. I've never heard of any problems running E85.
The stock fuel system will handle 275whp on 91, so flow/pressure isn't an issue.
I was working from home today and managed to get some time to get to the dealership at lunch to pick up the engine and get the car towed home. After speaking with the mechanic who worked on my car I'm a lot less angry at the dealership. I'm still pissed at them and I still think they screwed up the recall, but all that nonsense about the oil pump failing and not being turned by the serpentine belt was the service advisor misunderstanding what the mechanic told him and then coming up with his own expanded explanation (I think).
When he was loading the engine into the back of the Uhaul pickup I rented, I asked the mechanic to explain what happened to the engine. His response was: "Honestly, I don't know why it failed. I checked the oil pressure at idle and it was fine (8psi), I didn't check it at higher RPM. We found metal in the oil pan so we checked all of the work we did for the recall and everything looked good. I know all about the issues with this recall, about the sealant, but I didn't find any sealant in the oil pickup screen which is where you'd find it if there was loose sealant. The only thing I can think of is that the oil pressure relief valve opened prematurely so it had good pressure at idle, but it opened at a fairly low RPM so the pressure was too low and wiped out the rod bearings, but that's just speculation." I told him that the service advisor told me the oil pump failed, was really hard to turn and stopped pumping, and he said "well, the valve is part of the oil pump so technically I guess you could say it failed, but it was still pumping fine." The bottom line was they couldn't find evidence that the problem was caused by the recall work so they're not covering it. I won't have any free time until sunday, so I guess I'll start taking apart the engine then and look for sealant where it shouldn't be. I've got the factory service manual, so I'll follow that as well as I can to make it "official" in case I find something.
The mechanic didn't take pictures of their findings, the "official diagnosis" paperwork they gave me basically says what the mechanic told me, none of what the service advisor told me, though I have an email from the service advisor confirming everything he told me. They don't seem to have gotten too far into the engine looking for problems, just pulled the oil pan, timing cover and valve covers.
I asked if there was a regional service manager I could talk to about this, but was told they don't have one and they gave me a number for corporate, the same general 888 number that's on Toyota's website. So I guess I'll contact corporate and see if they can do anything for me, but I'm not holding out any hope.
At least the weather's getting nice and I hopefully don't have to worry about driving my XJR in the snow again, the tires on it aren't suited for that at all.
8psi at idle seems kinda low but volume is more important than pressure.
I wonder if the relief valve stuck open, maybe a bit of swarf jammed it. I've seen them stick closed and balloon filters but never seen one hold open.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:I'm still stuck on the accessory belt driving the oil pump. This is NEVER the case. EA82 engined Subarus did drive the oil pump by the left side timing belt, because the left side timing belt drove the camshaft that had the distributor, so if you lost that belt the engine would fail to run. But the last EA82s were mass-produced in 1990 and last sold in 1994 and the Taco Bell reject of a service manager is probably younger than that.
The oil pressure bypass will not move unless it is installed on an engine that is running fast enough that the oil volume provided by the pump is restricted enough by the clearances in all of the bearings in the engine. You cannot spin the pump by hand and see a valve move. At all. The very idea that this could be the case indicates that someone is either a complete, staring at a light bulb, drool-cup wearing, blithering idiot, or they think that you are and will accept that load of enriched bullE36 M3tium.
This is the kind of parts hanger (refuse to call them technicians) and/or service manager that is why we should have a strong welfare system, because society is better off if we pay them to stay home and loser by themself rather than have a job and screw things up for society at large.
Yes, I'm emotionally charged. I'm berkeleying enraged. This is the kind of shiny happy person that gives me and my profession a bad name.
I thoroughly enjoy your behind-the-curtain take on situations like this that crop up here. I think it's because I empathize with your frustration with the incompetent.
Appleseed said:I think that's correct. No spring recall on my 2015.
'13-14 I believe. Mine is a 2015 as well.
Oh, I get service writers garbling up what notes I've made. One of my primary frustrations in this line of work.
I would not classify 8psi at idle as "fine", although I don't have a wide enough sample of FA20s to know what normal is.
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