ST / KW Coilovers: Buyer Beware

What's happening folks. Just thought I'd share my day with you. 

On my way to work this morning I went to take a turn at maybe 10mph or less, and hit a rough patch while doing so. I was met with a loud snapping noise, and then a *clunk* while passing over any rough payment. I immediately turned around and went home (missing work..), jacked the car up and found that the driver side rear coilover had a broken shaft. It literally sheared off right at the shoulder where the threaded portion passes through the top-hat. I must say, never in my 20 years of motoring and wrenching have I seen a failure like this on a properly installed and young part (4k miles). Photos attached.

I called KW and spoke to their CS Rep, Augustine, who explained to me their "warranty process". After filling out a long form that requests loads and loads of technical details, KW asks that you send in the defective unit, they'll review the failed part, then...get this...rebuild it over the next 2-3 weeks and send it back to you. I said surely you can't be serious, explaining that it would be far more reasonable to sell me a new unit on-the-spot and later refund me the money once my defective part was assessed. You would've thought I was speaking Greek, considering how the guy just kept silent and would then repeat his bullsh*t spiel of intentionally obtuse responses. The conversation was no longer productive, so I called ECS tuning, the vendor that sold them to me. Chris at ECS agreed that this was ridiculous of KW, and began making calls to see if ECS could foot the bill for a replacement unit and try to recoup from KW on their own time. There's still no resolution, but I can say for a fact that KW / ST lost a customer today. A failure mode like this is completely unacceptable, and should warrant apologies and the utmost cooperation from the manufacturer. Instead I was met with indifference and arrogance, and this was from their CS Manager.

If you plan on purchasing a KW or ST product, I'd urge you to reconsider based on not only my experience, but also the other enthusiasts who have had similar experiences (Google it). Sorry for the massive pics.​​​​​​​

No one ever says "Gosh, I wish I bought that cheap crap instead of these Koni's."

Dr. Hess said:

No one ever says "Gosh, I wish I bought that cheap crap instead of these Koni's."

I think that response was overly harsh.  K&W has a good rep (or at least good marketing!) from what I've seen.  It's not like it's buddy club or some other ebay brand...  I've seen them used on a lot of high end Porsche & BMW builds.

Depending on the model, I don't think KW coilovers are cheap crap. But I could be wrong. A set of the V1's are over two large for my B5S4.

For that kind of money, one would think they'd be a bit more responsive...

4k miles and the shock bodies have that much corrosion? 

OK, no one ever says "I wish I bought those shocks from that company that doesn't answer the phone and could care less about me staring at their broken crap on my car instead of the Koni's, where I can call up the custom shop and they will answer the phone and fix whatever issue I might have or answer any question."

That's good to know as I was looking at KW's for my Mazda right now. Off to look at different brands.

Dr. Hess said:

No one ever says "Gosh, I wish I bought that cheap crap instead of these Koni's."

 I've run Bilsteins and Konis and none of them are without flaws. In fact, there's no shortage of Koni carnage on the web, so let's not paint every product from a brand with the same brush. Upon removal, my PSS9's separated in half and shot a seal across the room like a rifle. Those had 80k miles, though. 

z31maniac said:

4k miles and the shock bodies have that much corrosion? 

 

It's not corrosion, it's salt. Wipes right off. The car is usually much cleaner but it's been freezing lately. Not great car wash weather.

Isn't K&W a German company? I remember an article years ago on MotoIQ that went into how they had to pass TUV standards in Germany and so their quality was superior. Here's the article: https://motoiq.com/Industry-Insider-KW-Suspension-Factory-Tour-part-1/

Sorry to hear about your poor experience with them!

Well that's pretty sketchy, you're fortunate that the failure happened under relatively benign conditions. I assume the upper mounts were supplied with the coilovers? Almost wonder if something seized up there and prevented the mount from articulating like it had to.

Sorry to hear it, I'd reach KW and talk warranty/cheap rebuild.  I would guess they are super helpful given their reputation in the industry.  When I had a problem with a Bilstein PSS9 they charged me for a replacement and shipped immediately.  When they got the bad one back they credited me back fully.  While I'd rather not have a problem i couldn't have asked for better service.  I had similar great service from Ground Control.

Furious_E said:

Well that's pretty sketchy, you're fortunate that the failure happened under relatively benign conditions. I assume the upper mounts were supplied with the coilovers? Almost wonder if something seized up there and prevented the mount from articulating like it had to.

KW provides their aluminum top-hat for the spring, and I bought brand new OEM Lemfoerder mounts and bushings when I installed these. Everything looks good in this respect.

84FSP said:

Sorry to hear it, I'd reach KW and talk warranty/cheap rebuild.  I would guess they are super helpful given their reputation in the industry.  When I had a problem with a Bilstein PSS9 they charged me for a replacement and shipped immediately.  When they got the bad one back they credited me back fully.  While I'd rather not have a problem i couldn't have asked for better service.  I had similar great service from Ground Control.

Not to be a jerk but, did you read the post? Hahaha. 

They are unwilling to reimburse me for my purchase of a new unit. They expect me to either buy a new unit and eat the cost, or keep my car on jack-stands for 3 weeks while they rebuild the unit. Neither is acceptable. That's the beef, aside from, you know, the catastrophic failure and all.

thebigchill said:

 

Not to be a jerk but, did you read the post? Hahaha. 

Not to be a jerk either but we have these

as opposed to " Hahaha". And believe me I've been a jerk.

Ok . Peace out. 

It would be nice to see the failure point in focus as that will tell the tale as to what the failure mode was.  Twisting versus sheer versus pull etc.  Also I would inspect the failure point carefully for signs of cracking (oxidation at the edges) or other damage that may have started the failure.  

Well, if you'd shown them that pic before starting the convo the first question might have been "what was the torque spec on the shaft nut?". Loaded question. Possibly more loaded than the actual nut was. Sorry to hear about the bad customer service, and glad you weren't hurt. 

Not to beat a dead horse but I've been bringing up this exact same issue with KW for over ten years.  And have been told to "shut up" about it by people on this very board.

I had to deal with KW's warranty process when a 6 month old KW V3 (so NOT cheap) front strut blew out on me.  They absolutely REFUSED to sell me another strut and refund me the money when they got my bad one back and verified it was bad.  This was on my daily driver and I had no spare car at the time. 

So I went out and bought another complete suspension, sent in the bad strut to KW, who rebuilt it, taking almost SIX weeks to get it back to me, then I sold that KW GARBAGE.

I've had Tokico's, Bilsteins, Koni's, MCS's on cars and NONE of them have ever left me in the lurch the way KW did.  They all happily sent me another strut/shock, sometimes not even charging me. 

F KW, they SUCK!

I will stick with Bilstein and Koni, thank you very much.

Note to KW.  It takes years to build a good reputation, but you can destroy one in a day.

I’m with Dean, I want to see a close up of the failure and the stem side. That will tell the tale of the failure. I’m surprised they don’t want do everything they can to get that back for review or at least asking for pictures. 

dean1484 said:

It would be nice to see the failure point in focus as that will tell the tale as to what the failure mode was.  Twisting versus sheer versus pull etc.  Also I would inspect the failure point carefully for signs of cracking (oxidation at the edges) or other damage that may have started the failure.  

Agreed. I'm going to inspect it later this evening. It's nearly a straight break (shear), with a small divot in the center of the face of the broken shaft. I haven't removed the top portion yet. Usually with torsion you get an angular fracture (I think). I have an engineering background, but not tons of metallurgy experience. Happy to hear your thoughts.

Firstly, sorry to hear about the mechanical and customer service woes. 

I'm curious about the nature of the failure.  What car was this on? I assume German if you're dealing with ECS.

I'm also interested to see the fracture surface. I wonder if it somehow was bending, maybe there was something concentrating load of there, or a notch in the shaft?  Torsion typically has a ramp to the surface (something about principle stresses).

Hotlink bc GRM:

KW does not have a good rep in the Porsche world.  They are Audi’s like mad though.  In the Porsche world Bilstein has an amazing rep and are the OEM supplier too.  Koni has almost no representation since Bilstein accounts for most of the shocks.  Ohlins, JAZ, H&R, and Bilstein make up most of thr coilover purchases based on what I have seen.  I will likely be going Ohlins or Bilstein coilovers unless I just go ROW M030 (also Bilstein).

Most people feel good shocks and springs beats a KW coilover for a 996 or 986.

There's a V valley in the fracture face of the shaft. So that kind of suggests a tensile overload fracture? Also, is that a stud threaded into the shaft?..