ST / KW Coilovers: Buyer Beware

In reply to thebigchill :

The clamping force is the same at the shoulder where your failure occurred as it is at the top of the mounting plate.

pinchvalve said:

z31maniac said:

4k miles and the shock bodies have that much corrosion? 

 

Koni Yellows corrode even worse after less time.  I swear they start to rust the day you put them on.  

And they often show up with paint damage. Customers love that.

Keith Tanner said:

pinchvalve said:

z31maniac said:

4k miles and the shock bodies have that much corrosion? 

 

Koni Yellows corrode even worse after less time.  I swear they start to rust the day you put them on.  

And they often show up with paint damage. Customers love that.

Sounds like Old Man Emu shocks.Their paint (also yellow) pretty much starts flaking off if you look at it funny. Maybe they both use the same E36 M3ty paint?

The clearcoat on the off-road Bilsteins is garbage too.  Doesn't take much before it starts separating from the shock and flaking.  And once that happens, it takes about 30 seconds for the shocks to have rust bubbles on the bodies under the remaining attempt at paint. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I don’t feel for KW at all.  I was more than happy to buy a new strut and be credited when they inspected my bad one. 

If I hadn’t laid out a bunch of cash for an entirely new, different suspension my daily driver would’ve been down for 6 weeks!

how is that acceptable?  It’s not my fault their whack ass product failed in 6 months!

Their warranty process is markedly different than all the other suspension companies I’ve ever dealt with.

they suck, period.

Keith Tanner said:

That's a decent option, but it's not always a popular one with customers because they have to lay money down. The supplier still ends up with an unsellable shock at the end of it. So it's either the best compromise or the worst.

FM sold me used parts, and I’m pretty sure I talked to you.  Now I knew they were used, but used parts aren’t unsellable.  The parts in question were shocks and springs to so it’s pertinent.  

In reply to docwyte :

See KW has a terrible rep with Porsche owners.  A Porsche message board out there is filled with shoulda bought something better posts and cheap used KWs.

AnthonyGS said:

Keith Tanner said:

That's a decent option, but it's not always a popular one with customers because they have to lay money down. The supplier still ends up with an unsellable shock at the end of it. So it's either the best compromise or the worst.

FM sold me used parts, and I’m pretty sure I talked to you.  Now I knew they were used, but used parts aren’t unsellable.  The parts in question were shocks and springs to so it’s pertinent.  

How do you think we knew to do the math? :) We don’t sell used stuff anymore. It’s just not worth it. We don’t have a good mechanism for it, so it’s high effort. We could use our old system that’s highly flexible but inefficient, or the new less flexible but far more efficient option. It’s no coincidence that our time-to-shipment has dropped from 5 days to 1 day of late. Better customer service for everyone!

I’m bowing out of this conversation. It was not a great idea to try to give a peek into the other side on a hot button topic.

Keith Tanner said:

AnthonyGS said:

Keith Tanner said:

That's a decent option, but it's not always a popular one with customers because they have to lay money down. The supplier still ends up with an unsellable shock at the end of it. So it's either the best compromise or the worst.

FM sold me used parts, and I’m pretty sure I talked to you.  Now I knew they were used, but used parts aren’t unsellable.  The parts in question were shocks and springs to so it’s pertinent.  

How do you think we knew to do the math? :) We don’t sell used stuff anymore. It’s just not worth it. We don’t have a good mechanism for it, so it’s high effort. We could use our old system that’s highly flexible but inefficient, or the new less flexible but far more efficient option. It’s no coincidence that our time-to-shipment has dropped from 5 days to 1 day of late. Better customer service for everyone!

I’m bowing out of this conversation. It was not a great idea to try to give a peek into the other side on a hot button topic.

This would have been the old, old, old FM was still pretty new system, but it happened.  That's all. 

Keith Tanner said:Their rear springs are only 200mm (8") long, which means somewhere between 4-5" of actual travel. We have to use 12" rear springs to avoid bind in our coilovers.

That's because you care about handling, and not just how it looks at the Spaghetti Warehouse parking lot.

dj06482 said:

Isn't K&W a German company? I remember an article years ago on MotoIQ that went into how they had to pass TUV standards in Germany and so their quality was superior. Here's the article: https://motoiq.com/Industry-Insider-KW-Suspension-Factory-Tour-part-1/

Sorry to hear about your poor experience with them!

Sadly, being “German Made” means nothing anymore. Even if it is held to a higher standard than elsewhere. I’m in an industry that has watched Bosch products get cheaper and flimsier by the year. I’ll never own a new Bosch appliance. Cheeeeeeeap

In reply to _ :

The German manufacturing industry started declining a while ago and people are just starting to see the effects of it on the consumer market. Out-of-date tooling, expensive yet subpar materials, and aggressive cost cutting have been three of the main problems for years.

Part of the problem is KW's decision to try to manufacture the Variant line of coilovers in Germany instead of farming out production of individual components to places that can do it well and for cheap. If they got their seals and stainless steel bodies from the right place in China, I suspect they wouldn't have as many quality control problems as they do today.

All that said, the KW Clubsport line of dampers are quite good. So you can still get good German made stuff, if you're willing to pay for it.

Keith Tanner said:

I have concerns about KW's engineering based on their actual fitment - they contacted us about selling their ND shocks, and the decrease in suspension travel was spectacular. Their rear springs are only 200mm (8") long, which means somewhere between 4-5" of actual travel. We have to use 12" rear springs to avoid bind in our coilovers.

KW generally does a terrible job of designing car-specific applications. They seem to consistently use too short of a spring, too long of a body, and not allow for any droop travel. That's part of the reason so many BMW owners have to resort to wheel spacers to get the wheel rim to clear the lower shock collars. It's like they don't actually fit test the parts or something.

It's a shame too because the dampers themselves are quite good. They perform really well on a shock dyno and feel great on a street car.

In reply to AnthonyGS :

I actually bought them in 2007 for my B5 S4 avant.  There's NO way I'd ever use their product again.  I'm looking at Ohlins for my 996, if I can get over the cost of entry.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I expect a company to hold up their end of the bargain.  I paid good money for their product, which should not fail in 6 months.  If it does, they should not hold their customers car hostage so they can inspect and rebuild their product, which failed.  KW is NOT a Mom&Pop shop, they have the inventory and finances to properly execute a warranty exchange. 

They simply chose to F over their customers, which is not the right way to do things.

docwyte said:

In reply to AnthonyGS :

I actually bought them in 2007 for my B5 S4 avant.  There's NO way I'd ever use their product again.  I'm looking at Ohlins for my 996, if I can get over the cost of entry.

I'm debating Ohlins or Bilstein PSS for my 996 and 986 over the next few years.  I can probably do one car a year and not hurt too bad. 

The Bilstein PSS are the same, or more than the Ohlins.  That makes it an easy choice to pick the Ohlins.  Although Bilstein will rebuild their shocks for ~$65 each.  I've had them do it before and its awesome.

ST KW coilovers have a really bad quality, bad quality materials, strange designing/engineering. For paid money, better to purchase 5 sets of chinese coilovers.

KW as a company doing nothing to fix a issue. Their "warranty process", - answering and rejecting all warranty claims. 

Both rear absorbers has oil leakage after 5kkm, The dust covers and dampers not fixing at the top, they fall after few thousand km. On front shock was broken the sway bar link fixture - 100% designing failure  and not correct material choose. 

Do not recommend for trackdays/ sport events. Just for show cars, which all time stay at the show or in a garage.

My kw v3s were very good, for 20k miles of road and track abuse.they rode and handled very well.  I've had horrendous experiences with the 3 sets of konis ive had. 100% failure rate with konis. Each to their own. 

Keith Tanner said:

That's a decent option, but it's not always a popular one with customers because they have to lay money down. The supplier still ends up with an unsellable shock at the end of it. So it's either the best compromise or the worst.

This doesn't compute.  If the customer is willing to buy another unit, and pay for it to be shipped as the OP was willing to do, the company has effectively sold 2.  Customer sends broken one back, failure is due to installation by customer, the customer pays for his mistake, if due to defective product the company refunds the original purchase plus shipping and pays for their mistake.  That's as fair as it gets and the customer is only without transportation during shipping of replacement instead of 2 months plus 

I'm not saying this isn't still a valid discussion, but FYI this thread was zombie'd by a brand new user account with odd grammar and a vague explanation of interactions with KW.

In reply to Matt B (fs) :

Are you saying Canoe?

In reply to bobzilla :

TBH I really can't tell at this point, but the post checks some boxes.  If it is a canoe then it's likely setup by an actual person who will then produce the actual watercraft in a subsequent post.  If it isn't, then well my apologies to Den.  Don't let me deter anyone from sticking around and contributing, but there's enough flags here to see what happens next.

In reply to Matt B (fs) :

I was in the same boat on it. We'll just wait and see

please see my post on the first page of this thread.  KW blows donkey balls.