Vigo wrote: And ive always defeated clutch switches because its handy to crank a car up the little ramp into the carport with it in gear when its broke down
I drove my Subaru about an eighth of a mile with the starter in 5th gear. Damned if I was going to push it.
Clutch out, I have a heavy pressure plate so it would be even higher than normal wear on the thrust washers.
Jensenman wrote: There is a safety aspect, much like the 'lawyer switches' on motorcycle kickstands. Me, I believe in Darwin.
Less Darwinism than the Ducati spring loaded one. As soon as you take weight off the stand it self flips up. I saw a kid at the Duc showroom almost drop on on top of a looooong row of bikes.
If you can't buy it, son't sit on it.
Oh yeah, pedal in.
Dan
I do whatever the car requires, so usually clutch in.
It's handy to be able to move broken cars around with the starter as someone else mentioned though.
Living in the great northeast, I have always pushed the clutch pedal down. Often made the difference of starting or not. And I have Never worn out a thrust bearing.
Gearheadotaku wrote: Clutch in, due to interlock. Even back in the day, I still did it clutch in. (Then clutch out neutral for warm-up) It's only a moment of pressure on the bearing. How many of us have had early bearing failure due to this?
If it were really a bearing (like rotaries, they use a needle thrust bearing for the eccentric shaft) rather than a plain bushing, then I could see it. Unfortunately, it's two flat surfaces which press against each other.
One thing I noticed when dorking around with a Honda recently: the main bearing 'ladder' has a set of oil passages in it which hold a surprising amount of oil. Yeah, it got all over me. 
That would definitely lessen the amount of 'dry start' time. Maybe that's the reason for lots of the newer rice burner stuff not frying thrust washers.
stan wrote: I remember hearing, back in my MG ownership days, that clutch out was the proper way to start your MG. I just don't remember why.
MG's for years had carbon release bearings, like an old air cooled VW. So not only did they have the crank thrust problem but the carbon release bearing (poor choice of words) to worry about. Those were designed to be used for very short periods (you should not hold the clutch in at a stoplight, for instance).
MGB release 'bearing':
Clutch in, but more from habit than anything else. I started driving in LBCs, and always left it in gear when parked because I didn't trust the handbrake.
I'd never heard about the MG thing, but I was a Triumph guy back then.
I almost always park in gear and usually set the handbrake. My startup habit is sit down, foot on BRAKE, handbrake off, wiggle shifter into neutral, start car. No clutch. The car is always in gear so I always take it OUT of gear as part of the habit. Works for me...
Jensenman wrote:stan wrote: I remember hearing, back in my MG ownership days, that clutch out was the proper way to start your MG. I just don't remember why.MG's for years had carbon release bearings, like an old air cooled VW. So not only did they have the crank thrust problem but the carbon release bearing (poor choice of words) to worry about. Those were designed to be used for very short periods (you should not hold the clutch in at a stoplight, for instance). MGB release 'bearing':
both of my manual cars have interlocks 
always started with clutch out in the past... routine now... sit, clutch in, wiggle shifter, turn on switch, wait for elec. fuel pump to stop, start car, clutch out, belt on, mirrors etc, and go
I don't know how the engineers thought that a piece of compressed charcoal would be any good as a throwout bearing.
Keith wrote:gjz30075 wrote: Clutch in. 150k miles later, still, clutch in. Had a buddy who did clutch out and almost put my car into my garage wall. Yes, I leave it in gear. When I'm in a car I'm not familiar with, or simply don't own, ALWAYS clutch in.Which is why I always wiggle the gearshift, foot hard on the brake, wiggle the gearshift again and hit the starter. I don't care who parked the car, I'm the one who's starting itI remember Rowan Atkinson comparing the Porsche GT vs the McLaren F1 (if memory serves). The Porsche was held up for ridicule as it was the first car he'd ever driven that required a clutch interlock.
The Honorable Mr Atkinson was also one of the earliest owners to write off his F1 Macca.
m
My 86 toyota truck had the button on the dashboard.
I turn my car off with the car in neutral and the clutch out, because I've heard of the throwout bearing/thrust bearing wear thing. Dunno if it's true, but it makes sense, and why take the chance?
My car won't start without the clutch in, though. I thought about adding a button that bypassed the clutch switch, but it was way too hard for something I wasn't sure would make any difference.
chaparral wrote: I don't know how the engineers thought that a piece of compressed charcoal would be any good as a throwout bearing.
It wuz cheep. Made the bean counters happy. 
Made me real happy when I had a new one crumble in under 2000 miles... ;-(
I'm in transition. My 93 Miata I drove for the last 5 years had an interlock so I did clutch in and left the car in gear. When I got my FM clutch in my 96 Miata it had clip to defeat the interlock, so I'm gradually getting used to clutch out (for the same reasons mentioned above). I'm extra careful... after many years of leaving the car in gear I'm always worried it's still in gear so I check multiple times.
If I'm in a car without an interlock (my SAABs, Toyota Pickup, etc), I start in neutral with the clutch out.
I remember one day at the body shop we had some woman come in to pick up her Honda. She came in paid the bill we gave her the key and then went out got in the car and promptly came back in all mad that her car wouldn't start and that we must have broken it.
Boss man tossed me the keys and told me to check it out. I ran out jumped in, pushed in the clutch and it fired right up. The woman was pissed to have been proven wrong and jumped in the car tried to drive away and immediately killed it. I wonder how it got in a wreck in the first place...
I am a clutch in, neutral man. Their have been several times where someone else drove the car, left it in gear and i quickly started it up and nearly put it through the object directly in front of the car. Luckily i usually leave the handbrake up til the moment i start moving
Most of these people have now been instructed on how to correctly park my car.
All of you with clutch interlocks that start clutch-in - what would your preference be? Its not like these aren't easily defeated.
I am a clutch out starter, and while my current cars were initially equipped with clutch interlocks I have done fixed that feature. I used to do whatever the car wanted, but a miata with ACT Xtreme clutch taught me otherwise.
Clutch out to save the thrust bearing plus it is much easier to just lean over into the car to start it when wrenching on it.
joepaluch wrote: I start clutch in 90% of the time. However on my race car I wil start it in neutral if I am not in the car. (I reaching in the window) I like that I don't NEED to push the clutch to get it going.
About the second time I found myself desperately running beside the car because it started when I did that, I decided to change my habit.
It's only startling when the engine cranks and the car lurches. But when the engine starts and the car takes off, invariably when you're not well prepared to deal with a moving vehicle, it becomes far more entertaining.
Vigo wrote: I start my cars with the clutch out for the thrust bearing reason. And ive always defeated clutch switches because its handy to crank a car up the little ramp into the carport with it in gear when its broke down
Exactly as I do. If there is an interlock, I defeat it to go easy on the thrust washers, which in my TR3, I hand lapped (the backs) for the perfect clearance and for emergencies.
My standard proceedure is to leave the car in gear. Get in, step on brake, step on clutch, slip stick into neutral, wiggle it and let go, release the clutch, then start the car. No safety issues, except the elimination of the one discussed below.
I want to be able to use the starter to move the car in an emergency, like stalled out in front of a looming Mack truck or train. When my 1988 Saab 9000 hydraulic clutch hose broke (yeah, but it was 15 years old) I use the starter a few times to get the car started and home.
Jack
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