State Patrol VIN Inspector help please

Yesterday I went in for my second VIN inspection on my Impala. This is to get registered as a '66 because the title says it's a '67.

• the story with that is: since it's a CKD it wasn't "built" until '67 so the Europeans registered the vehicle as a '67.

It's not a big deal to me, having my '66 registered as a '67 but apparently it was a huge deal to the guy at the DMV (he was very worried about me getting "full collector value" and wouldn't take "shut-up and color" as an answer).

So that brings us to the State Patrol VIN inspectors:

My first appointment, I showed them this plate:

The inspector gets in his book and says:

"There is nothing here that matches a 1966. The VIN should start with a '1' (for General motors) and the 6th digit would be the year."

• if he uses the 6th digit in my vin it would be a "3" (for 1963)

I explain that my VIN is European. CA-6163393020 stands for

• C = General motors COntinental
• A = Antwerp plant
• -6 = 1966
• 16339 = Impala
• last 4 = unique vehicle serial number

but he wont buy it. Instead he has me schedule a second appointment for two-hours so they can inspect my frame and look for a VIN number.

This brings us to the second appointment with these guys. This appointment pretty much consists of gratuitous application of paint remover and sandpaper to my frame while they look for a vin (supposed to be stamped behind the rear wheel arch on the driver's side.

It's not there.

I try my "It's not an American model, it wont meet the American requirements/standards" argument once again to no avail.

They give me a couple options:

• 1) remove the paint from under my cowl and see if there is a vin number stamped there

• 2) Have them assign a Washington State Tag with a VIN of their choosing and tag the vehicle appropriately

I came up with another option:

• 3) go to another department of licensing and see if I get someone who will not argue with me about the year.

I'm positive that option 1 will not yield a VIN number, so I'm ruling that out right now.

I'm curious as to what option 2 would involve. Does anyone have any experience with this? I feel that a lot of my cars "value" is derived from the "Made in Antwerp" tag and if I loose it then I'd loose significant value. If they just attach a tag somewhere unnoticeable then I'm cool with it.

I'm worried that Option 3 would just get returned to me after the title application was sent because the customs forms declare it as a 1966 and the title says it's a '67.

I guess I could also go to another state patrol inspection station and try my luck there...

WWGRMD?

Where in Washington are you and which inspection station did you use?

Option 3 is what I would do. As long as the title matches the year registered you should be fine. Don't go on about how it's really a 66 and if they ask about the customs form either say you don't know, or that it's a 67 model made in 66 (are you sure that's not the case?)

I'm located in Tacoma, and the inspection station was off of the Portland ave on 512 towards Puyallup.

Bring documentation as to how your VIN works. "I read it on the internet" isn't really enough.

For value, 3. For I-don't-careness, option 2.

I've never had them remove an existing label when they assign a VIN, just add the new plate in the door frame. Any other numbers already existing are recorded on the paperwork.

I wouldn't bother with all that and just drive it around with the classic tag from my chevelle on it. I suppose that presents a problem if you don't already have a tag from another almost 50 year old chevy handy... so I got nuthin'.

Maybe talk to an antique club in a state that borders Canada and see if they have a process for imports that look just like non-imports to tools in the DMV?

Option 4. Keith version.

Have you contacted GM? Porsche, Jaguar and many others are always supplying certificates of authenticity based off of a VIN plate.

Your biggest issue is this silly model year thing is purely a North American invention. To the rest of the world the year of the vehicle is based on the day it rolled off the line.

Hungary Bill wrote: I'm located in Tacoma, and the inspection station was off of the Portland ave on 512 towards Puyallup.

Come down here to the Kelso inspection station. More classic cars per capita in this county than anywhere else in the stat. The inspector will take one look at your car and go "yup, it's a 66". They even knew what a Javelin was.

I went through a similar issue yesterday with my Mini. My car was imported from England by the guy I bought it from. It is a car that in the mini world is known as a bitsa car. It is titled as a 1964, but the body shell is from a 1974 car. Not much on the car from 1964 at this point. Anyway, there is a certain "S" in the id number that somehow got turned into a "5" by someone along the way. The tag on the car matches the title I surrendered to get a new title in a new state, but Mr. Eagle eye inspector slueth figured out that the VIN tag is not in the original location and then figured out that the "5" in that place made no sense and didn't match any car ever produced by Austin. Now it looks like I will have to get a NC assigned number. It consists of two stickers that Mr. sleuth inspector has to affix to the car and then after that, this newly assigned number is how my car will be titled. As part of this whole mess, I have to have a bond on the car through my insurance since there is some question now on who may actually own the car. (Eventhough I've owned it for 12 years and has it titled in three other states) and have the info of the guy I bought it from and the last two owners of the car when it was in England going back to the 80's.

It sounds like your case may be solvable since your car is just a VIN that they don't understand, but it is the correct VIN for the car. I like Keith's suggestion above. Educate the guy with some proof and it should be no problem.

My Mr. inspector pulled up my carpets looking for a number that I told him wasn't there. Why this guy carries a gun and handcuffs I do not know. He agreed with me that my car was not a stolen vehicle and that is all the inspection is supposed to determine. Now who knows how long, how many return trips to the inspection place that is 45 minutes away, how many hours of missed work, and how much money this will cost me to fix at this point. Sure, there is an issue with my car's VIN, but if he were willing to just go with the fact that the VIN tag matches the paperwork going back over 10 years this shouldn't be too hard to resolve.

I wish you luck with your Impala.

Ask the inspector how vehicles produced in Antwerp were vin'ed? And, ask him to provide documentation that the US vin applies to Antwerp.

Go to Jav's office

The inspector probably thinks that Antwerp is in NJ.

HappyAndy wrote: The inspector probably thinks that Antwerp is in NJ.

No, silly... it's in Ohio

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Option 4. Keith version. Have you contacted GM? Porsche, Jaguar and many others are always supplying certificates of authenticity based off of a VIN plate. Your biggest issue is this silly model year thing is purely a North American invention. To the rest of the world the year of the vehicle is based on the day it rolled off the line.

Ding Ding Ding, that right there is what to do. They supply documents and get to tell a LEO agency they're morons.

The car was assembled in Antwerp, but do you know if the CKD kit was shipped from a plant in the USA or Canada? GM can provide heritage certificates for older cars that cover production dates and a bunch of other information, and while they can do it for Canada cars back to 1963 those certificates are only available for US cars going back to 1977.

GM of Canada: http://www.vintagevehicleservices.com/options.html
GM of USA: http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/

Thank you everyone! (this is why I ask you guys)

I'm going to try Stewart's links (the canadian one, as I believe this was built from canadadian parts) in an effort to get some sort of "professional" documentation stating that this is what I'm saying it is (because, you know... 50-years of European registration with the number listed as "the vin" wasn't enough...)

THEN I'm driving my skinny butt to Kelso.

TJ:
I feel for ya man. This crap gives me the worst headaches. Good luck.

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep ya posted. In the meantime, don't ever import a vehicle.

Strike one!

General Motors of Canada said: sorry but it appears the cars have been re-VIN'd in Europe. A typical Canadian VIN would have been 616339000001 and up. The cowl tag from Canada has been removed and a new one installed, so we have no body number even to go back on. 17 digit VIN numbers did not start till 1981. Thanks and regards:

And I do believe the Antwerp plant closed down so getting someone on the line in Belgium may be a bit difficult.

I DID look through the owner's manual. No vin decoder in there either.

At least GM of Canada was quick to respond, that was nice of them.

No joke! I had a reply in seconds (literally).

I'm doing a similar search for GM Europe. Maybe they have a similar service.

Try the US office, that shoudld pretty much be their global HQ.

Sounds like you just need a guy at the state office who has a clue what a non-us VIN is on an over-25yo vehicle (which was also produced in the US)

In reply to Hungary Bill:

With your owners manual, you don't happen to have a "Protect-O-Plate" with it do you? If you did have it, that alone would be enough to tell your state inspector to GFY. Those things have everything on them usually, build date, option codes, location, etc.

Also, TBH, I think it'd be worth more if you kept everything as it is, register as a '67 and such. The car has a story to tell, and that is worth more than most people think. DO NOT allow them to assign a vin number to it, that will completely negate the desirability.

Hungary Bill wrote: - 3) go to another department of licensing and see if I get someone who will not argue with me about the year.

That one, if you can. BTDT, going elsewhere often cures these ills.

I'd also attempt to gather what information you can to provide the inspector proof that European cars are done differently.

Well I have never had to deal with anything like that so I really feel for you. Interesting read.