Steering problems. What the Berkeley.

my assumption has been that stock alignment specs were appropriate. However in hindsight that may not be correct because they were 5 inches higher than with much skinnier tires

Not that i think alignment is your only issue, but if you draw a line through your upper and lower ball joints all the way to the ground, it will (should? stock..) touch a point somewhere in front of the stock tire contact patch, and in line with it. If you shorten the tire diameter drastically you also shorten the distance between that point and the contact patch, which will reduce the effects of the stock caster setting. If you change the wheel offset and add spacers you may move the tire laterally from that point as well which means scrub radius.  What you  describe sounds like too little positive caster for your changed tire diameter, too much scrub radius turning your known steering play into a bad wandering issue, and some kind of binding that probably only occurs at ride height.  

Dirtydog: no evo sensor in this one. I think that was 98-99 trucks.

The current rag joint checks out fine. But a good idea in shooting lubricant at things to see if behavior changes! May be worth a try to inject grease into boots instead of zerk fittings and see what happens, if anything. 

While stumbling around on the internet, I tripped over a different forum post with your name on it.  At first, I thought I hit pay dirt. Keep throwing enough E36M3 against the wall, something will stick.  

There may be a heavier duty steering box you could swap in, but it will be much slower than your ZQ8.  My hearse (commercial chassis, HD suspension) has one, didn't know they made them until I started googling the PN.  Found most of the info on IH8MUD, of course the big tire guys like them, they're more highly boosted so you can turn those 44s.

I tried to dig up the PNs but I couldn't find them.  I know I have them written down at home.  

While looking for the PNs I did find some guys talking about how you have to use a different pitman arm depending on the ratio of the box.  The HD box requires a different pitman arm but the diameter of the pitman shaft is bigger so the non-HD won't fit.  I haven't convinced myself that a ratio change would require a different pitman arm length.  Is there a ZQ8 specific pitman arm out there?

My money would be on upper ball joint binding.  I was actually just reading about tall ball joints for the S10 and a Dusterdb13 was one of the suspension gurus the guys kept mentioning.

Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to eastsideTim :

Not only are there not any swaps i know of, the only way to get a NEW box is roughly $500. Which is outrageous. 

I agree about the undue strain. I think whatever is the root cause of the issue is whats killing them.

The more i think about ball joint angles, the more convinced i am that they are the root cause. Or a defective product from the start.

$500 does seem outrageous, until you think about how critical steering is for the safety of you and those around you.  Just sayin'

I haven't convinced myself that a ratio change would require a different pitman arm length.

Changing the pitman arm length IS changing the steering ratio. Just not the one inside the box. If you lengthen the pitman you need to lengthen the idler as well.  

Dusterbd13-michael said:

Dirtydog: no evo sensor in this one. I think that was 98-99 trucks.

My 97 has one. Still wouldn't cause this anyway. 

I HIGHLY doubt this has anything to do with wheels/scrub angles. I worked on a tons of these things in Los Angeles around y2k (+/-5 years) when the trend among the Hispanics was 15" billet wheels with 4" of poke and never had any box failures.  

I am still inclined to think it has to do with ball joints. Lower BJ's are in tension on the 2x4 and with lowering springs I doubt there's much - if any - tension with the wheels in the air. 

I know it's a bitch, but might be worth popping them and pulling the boots to check for galling that would cause issues with the wheel loaded. 

It wouldn't likely account for play in the box (unless it's just causing crib death) but it's pissposs the BJ's have just self clearanced any galling with the wheels centered.

In reply to Stefan :

I do not disagree with that statement at all about it being cheap compared to. However until I find the root cause of the other steering boxes demise, I'm not spending the money. That money will probably be spent at a later date though.

In reply to Crackers :

Ball joints is really where I'm leaning. I'm on the road at this point time and don't really have easy access to pictures or Google, I've been surfing the form from a stoplight. Could you link me some pictures so I can know what to look for upon disassembly for ball joint galling?

Alright, spebt the last 10 minutes google searching for pictures of galled/internally damaged ball joints with no success.

In addition, i spent 30 freaking minutes with djm "tech support ". Quite possibly the WORST experience i have ever had with a company. Will not ever use their products again based on that interaction. It was also pointless, as they couldn't/wouldn't give me any answers about changes from stock in their control arms and spindles with regards to ball joint angles. 

So, my plan at this point is ti dissassemble the whole front end in stages. Stage 1 is to pop the tie rods off the spindles, and see how the steering effort feels running/not. That will tell me SOMETHING about the pump. I think. 

Stage 2 us to pull the spindles and inspect the ball joints themselves independently. That part im unsure of, as i dont really know what im looking for. If the angles are wrong, and they are binding at ride height, should there be some sort of telltale? My hope here is to do checking/repair without having to screw with the coil springs, as they SUCK to eork eith on this thing.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

The galled ball joint from what I have seen normally roughed up on the inside. 

When I get home I might still have some in my scrap pile from the truck. 

In reply to Professor_Brap :

Please! This is my first rodeo with bad ball joint diagnostic 

Streetwiseguy said:

Zq8 Cardone steering box.  Find an oe one from the junkyard.  

Never buy a reman steering box.  Ever.

This times a thousand.  Especially Cardone.  Don't even go with an expensive brand.  Junk.  The ZQ8 box is not variable ratio (IIRC) so it can easily be adjusted externally if it has play, so get a used one.

On the steering effort, you mentioned not knowing the pump.  Recirc-ball steering setups use a pressure regulator that is in the neighborhood of 2700psi.  Rack and Pinion uses more like 1500psi.  It's possible you have a regulator for an R&P, or that the pump is just toast.

Is the steering centered? Are the wheels straight ahead with the steering wheel turned half way between full lock each way?

I'm on the road myself today similarly posting during restroom breaks etc.

Galling would look like a really bad piston or bearing. They should be polished (or nearly) on the inside. But if there's a misalignment issue you'll probably also see a notch in the retaining collar where the stud had been hitting it, as well as witness marks on the stud itself. 

Here is a far out one.   Are the air pressures in the run flats  correct ?

In reply to iceracer :

I honestly didn't check! Never thought about it .wow. i suck.

Will definitely do that first thing in the morning (sick kiddo and cuddle tonight 

In reply to iceracer :

Yes. 40psi on all 4 corners. 

I may have missed it, but have you been checking movement/binding with the front suspension at ride height or unloaded?

If it’s all been with it unloaded, I’d go back and recheck loaded, the ball joints will behave differently, and steering linkage will be at different angles which could hide a problem if inspected at full droop. 

Also peel back the ball joint boots and look for any shiny spots around the opening in the body or on the shaft in case it has some contact. It may be just enough contact to cause the slight bind at ride height, but provide clearance at full droop to move smoothly. 

In reply to No Time :

Up to this point it has all been done in droop due to no real way to test at height. 

My current plan (working both jobs today, so tomorrow night after work at the earliest ) is to pull the spindles and pop the boots off the ball joints for visual inspection. In addition  while the spindles are off, see what steering effort feels like with the truck running to see if it may have a mostly dead pump.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

Can you set the vehicle A-arms on jack stands and test it?

Here are some pix of a ball joint I disassembled.  Notice this particular joint has a much wider range of motion in one direction than the other (1st and 2nd pix).

The next 2 pix show where you’ll want to look for signs of binding.  I’d expect to see more evidence on the stud than on the socket, and you’ll have to peel back the boot and degrease the part to see anything.

You can assemble front end without Springs and shocks, then use a jack or jack stand to hold LCA at ride height while you check for binding as you steer the spindle by hand with column unlocked.  It’s only labor, and labor is free, right?!?! ;-)

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

Can you set the vehicle A-arms on jack stands and test it?

Or, find a curb close by and park one side of the truck up on the curb.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

Not going to lie. I am trying to do everything I can in my power to not have to pull those coil springs. They are truly a ballbusting motherberkeleyer to deal with on this truck with these control arms. I appreciate the pictures of the ball joint and where to look in particular. It shaped a little differently than I thought it would be but it's awfully close to what I had pictured mentally