Steering problems. What the Berkeley.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

i can dig that.  i hate working with coil springs even when they're not a ballbusting motherberkeleyer.

This is far and above the WORST pair ive eber dealt with

I keep checking back for the answer to this mystery. The suspense! 

The suspense of the suspension. 

In reply to John Welsh :

Tomorrow night after work i tear it apart. It's on stands now.....

But im headed out in 10 minutes to be a plumbers helper for the night .gotta make suspension parts money.....

Ok, so i want to confirm my thoughts. I have this thing gutted like a trout right now.

1. Steering is isolated from the spindles via outer tie rods bein disconnected. The steering has about tge same effort running as not at idle. Its slightly easier running, but still requires not insignificant effort. Definitely not 1 finger effort. More like a manual steering box at parking lot speed. My thought is bad pump. Any way to confirm?

2. Lower ball joints shouldn't require massive effort to move in any direction, and DEFINITELY should not feel notchy or incredibly much stiffer past tge central point of range, correct? Its much easier to move towards droop than compression, and much easier fore/aft than droop OR compression. 

So, i think its bad lower ball joints, and a bad pump. But want to make damn certain this time.

I’ve never checked ball joints that way.

I’ve always done it by jacking under the lower control arm on GM truck (or any vehicle with loaded lower ball joints) until I can fit a bar under the tire. Then lift the bar while feeling for play. 

Unloaded lower ball joints (i.e. strut cars) are tested the same way, but the jack goes under the subframe or jack points so the suspension is at full droop. Then use the bar the same way to apply pressure and feel for play.

Notchiness sounds bad, but I’d check it with the suspension supported at ride height before jumping to any conclusions  

In reply to No Time :

Done that way, the were fine. However, i came to this method via the suspicion that the ball joints were binding or seized. Cleaning the grease out of the lowers, i see some very odd pitting and uneven wear marks. Dunno, but i went ahead and ordered moog liwers. Ive also ordered in ANOTHER reman box. This one is leaking after 80 miles. If it wasn't for the lifetime warrenty, id be pissed.

A New Ball joint Is very Stiff but moves smoothly in motion,  Ya Had to say Trout !,   If The problem persists after it back togeather, Get the front wheels on some Turning Plates , With the rods disconected you could almost blow on the steering wheel to make it turn If the pump is right,  So you might be looking at a pump  If It did turn when you blow on it then it would also be wrong   Ha !!

They should be stiff to start, but move smoothly and equally in all directions. What you're describing makes sense for a galled ball joint. The vast majority of the movement will be droop/compression, so it will mostly gall along that axis.

But, stick a pipe or a socket with an extension on it and move it with that to get an accurate feel for it. 

And I agree, the balls should look like a bearing surface, with no pits, irregularities, or foreign objects in/on it.

I replaced the steering box again, installed new moog lower ball joints, replaced the power steering pump, and regreased everything.  It is far less evil. Steering wheel returns now for the most part and it drives like a normal vehicle with a bad alignment. I am calling it a major freaking win. Still need to get it aligned again and I think adding some Caster will make a world of improvement in steering feel and high-speed stability.

What alignment specs should i shoot for? All the positive caster, around 1 degree negative camber, and 1/16 toe in?

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

WOOHOOO!

Robbie said:

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

WOOHOOO!

Amen!!!! This has been taking up FAR too much room in my head .

Finally, I think caster will do it wonders. 

A full degree negative with wide tires will make that thing tramline like a bitch.  Are you attempting real live high performance handling, or boulevard cruising while looking cool? If cruising, I'd go a bit positive. 

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Honestly, style, stance, comfort, and truck stuff. You know, nothing special at all. No autocross, no road racing. No high performance driving at all except for the occasional fun in a roundabout or on ramp.

My biggest thing is 55+ mph stability and ease of driving. 

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

I'd go a bit positive on the camber, then.  Not a load, but, you know, some...

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

So, all the caster i can get, zero ish camber, and 1/16 toe in, right? If my memory serves me correctly, at max positive caster on the eccentrics, im about .5+ camber.

IMO, positive camber has no place on a vehicle outside of a farm tractor.  I'd stay with slightly negative, just not more than a 1/2 degree or so unless tire wear starts to indicate you'd benefit from more.  If that suspension has a decent camber curve and you can get enough caster, that should be enough to not compromise grip in an "oh E36 M3" situation like positive camber could and it'll be more likely to give even tire wear if you don't drive it like a total grandma.  

1/16" toe in should be fine.  

In reply to rslifkin :

I generally drive like a flaming shiny happy person, and then there's GOOD days, where i drive like everyone else. 

Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to rslifkin :

I generally drive like a flaming shiny happy person, and then there's GOOD days, where i drive like everyone else. 

Definitely no positive camber then.  I'd shoot for around 0.5* negative and as much caster as you can get.  

rslifkin said:

Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to rslifkin :

I generally drive like a flaming shiny happy person, and then there's GOOD days, where i drive like everyone else. 

Definitely no positive camber then.  I'd shoot for around 0.5* negative and as much caster as you can get.  

agreed.   

0.0-0.5* Negative Camber

All the Positive Caster.   Aim for about +6*

Toe IN 1/8" to 1/4".   IIRC that's the OE spec range, yes?

Had to look it up, but yup! Well see how alignment goes when i can get it on the 4 post lift. Right now thats occupied by the corvette.....

It's too bad there isn't a better source for a quick-ish steering box for these things.  Or is there one?  It sounds like you're on the route to another box swap in the not too distant future just per your track record with this truck.  OR, and this sounds like something fun for someone else to do and for me to just suggest, you could always try to rebuild one of these boxes when they start having a failure, and actually fix it the way Cardone should have in the first place.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Ive looked into box swapping a little. Nothing really other than the 500 redhead, or reman.....