Finally took a look at this month's Sportcar magazine. Looks like STF is going away, and most are heading to a new STH class. Which looks like all the turbo cars and hatches.
Had the Abarth 3 years and this will be it's 4th class coming next year. STC, then STS, then STX last year, and now STH. (The WRX is moving from STX to STH as well.)
such a waste IMO. STF was a great class. 4 years and n4 different cars winning nationals.
This STH class is a mess. The WRX is going to be such an overdog it won't even be funny. Lots of good cars getting completely boned in STH and lots of former STF cars becoming completely obsolesced by getting shuffled off to STS.
STS the way it is built now, dependent upon nearly 30 year old civics, CRXes and Miatas, is unsustainable.
EF Civic, CRX, and non-Torsen miata should all go to a new class called HCT (Heritage Classic Touring) to acknowledge that they are now classic cars. I realize that would just make the EG and EJ Civic the car to have in STS, but that's still an improvement as those cars are much more plentiful.
Wait STH is going to allow open boost? You can finally tune boost without getting thrown into SM?
I don't necessarily like that it's replacing STF but that makes something like a modern hatch with a turbo a lot more fun.
I'll be honest this has been one of my biggest reasons for not buying a WRX/FoST etc was the fact I could have so much more cheap power but cant because of what it did to AutoX classing
I will say this however, STX AWD rules actually mean my buddies brand new 2015 WRX we are going to Autocross actually would have to use LESS wheel and tire than stock. Because stock it comes with 8.5" rims which we are running a 255/40/17 on and would be required to run an 8" rim and a 245 tire max.
While a GTI/FoST is allowed a LSD in the class and can run 265 tires and a 9" rim
I saw Pontiac G5 (2.0L Turbo) on that list. I wasn't aware that the Pontiac G5 was ever even offered with the Cobalt SS drivetrain
Jaynen wrote: Wait STH is going to allow open boost? You can finally tune boost without getting thrown into SM? I don't necessarily like that it's replacing STF but that makes something like a modern hatch with a turbo a lot more fun. I'll be honest this has been one of my biggest reasons for not buying a WRX/FoST etc was the fact I could have so much more cheap power but cant because of what it did to AutoX classing I will say this however, STX AWD rules actually mean my buddies brand new 2015 WRX we are going to Autocross actually would have to use LESS wheel and tire than stock. Because stock it comes with 8.5" rims which we are running a 255/40/17 on and would be required to run an 8" rim and a 245 tire max. While a GTI/FoST is allowed a LSD in the class and can run 265 tires and a 9" rim
That was actually swaying me a little away from the FoST as one of my next car ideas too. Nice to see that an LSD and a tune won't bump those kinds of cars to some nutty class like XP now.
Man, I was thinking I'd buy a Mazda 3 or Civic Si for my next car and run it in STF, now that seems like a joke. They've destroyed a lot of competitive options it seems to me. Why not just keep STF and create this hot hatch class as something for turbo people to turn the boost up.
I guess I'll have to take a look at H-street.
NickD wrote: I saw Pontiac G5 (2.0L Turbo) on that list. I wasn't aware that the Pontiac G5 was ever even offered with the Cobalt SS drivetrain
Mobilizing Google as we speak. Well, as I type. Okay, actually I'm gong to open a new tab after I post this, but...
This has me intrigued, dang it!
Knurled wrote:NickD wrote: I saw Pontiac G5 (2.0L Turbo) on that list. I wasn't aware that the Pontiac G5 was ever even offered with the Cobalt SS drivetrainMobilizing Google as we speak. Well, as I type. Okay, actually I'm gong to open a new tab after I post this, but... This has me intrigued, dang it!
I tried doing some searching and could find no mention of such a beast existing. And I have never seen such a car, any I have seen have used the regular old 2.2L
I guess this is just a proposed class not official yet anyway
I think the Mini is going to be the car to beat. It is shorter, narrower, and weighs 400lbs less than everything else in the class. They have small enough brakes to run 15" wheels that weigh almost nothing. After factoring in tunes, they meet or beat just about every car in power/weight ratio. Now that there is a Rival 1.5 in the right size, they can run 245 tires all around.
One of the rules of ST is you have to be on the stock clutch. A number of theoretically competitive cars will be removed because they need a clutch upgrade to make an extra 40 ft/lbs of torque. Cough MK7 GTI Cough.
I like the idea of the class but I see it turning into an all mini class like GS back in the day or HS before the Fiesta ST was released.
I think that the WRX will still stay top dog.
WRX is faster than the Cooper S as it is now.
WRX gets more out of the boost than a Cooper S and the WRX will have an easier time putting that power to the ground. However, yeah, the ability to run 245's on the Cooper is a bit of a game changer when the heavier WRX will be essentially limited to the same tire width.
What car turbo Cooper's capable of making on the stock turbo 250-275 hp? I imagine a WRX is good for something like 350 (although as mentioned, may have trouble with the stock clutch).
I am interested to see how it all shakes out. I am looking forward to how the class will improve things at the local level. I know a bunch of people with stage 1 tunes that run a couple novice events, lose to a street mod car, and don't come back.
I know 250 at the wheels is doable in a gen 2 Mini but I am not sure how much more is available. At that point everyone starts upgrading cams, injectors, intercooler, etc. I haven't seen someone try to go farther with just the ecu. This class sounds like it will lead to disposable engines if you are trying to win.
Maybe the board will do something interesting with tire widths, minimum weights, or differential limitations to try to even up the class.
I think part of it is lack of rules knowledge by local regions.
You CAN run Street Prepared with increased boost on stock turbos. Granted it's an R-Comp class, but it's also not Street Mod. In particular, the FWD turbo cars like the Mini S, MS3 and FoST go to DSP, which isn't that stiff of an index and it's unlikely that they'll come across a real DSP car at the local level.
ojannen wrote: I think the Mini is going to be the car to beat. It is shorter, narrower, and weighs 400lbs less than everything else in the class. They have small enough brakes to run 15" wheels that weigh almost nothing. After factoring in tunes, they meet or beat just about every car in power/weight ratio. Now that there is a Rival 1.5 in the right size, they can run 245 tires all around. One of the rules of ST is you have to be on the stock clutch. A number of theoretically competitive cars will be removed because they need a clutch upgrade to make an extra 40 ft/lbs of torque. Cough MK7 GTI Cough. I like the idea of the class but I see it turning into an all mini class like GS back in the day or HS before the Fiesta ST was released.
2wd cars can run 265 tires in STX spec however so the mini would be down on tire compared to some others Also the DSG is available in the GTI and can handle tons of power and since downpipe is legal in ST you would be looking at a stage 2 tune 309whp and 391 torque at the wheels
drdisque wrote: I think part of it is lack of rules knowledge by local regions. You CAN run Street Prepared with increased boost on stock turbos. Granted it's an R-Comp class, but it's also not Street Mod. In particular, the FWD turbo cars like the Mini S, MS3 and FoST go to DSP, which isn't that stiff of an index and it's unlikely that they'll come across a real DSP car at the local level.
I think its "scary" because every actual SP build I have heard of was waaay more expensive than someone putting tires/suspension/exhaust and a tune on their car
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