Street Car With Harnesses: Side Impact?

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse I've been reading up on the implications of running a vehicle on the street with race harnesses in order to be well informed on the subject and while there is ample information available regarding proper harness angle, etc. to prevent injury in front and rear impact collisions, as well as a multitude of conflicting opinions regarding rollover safety, there is one topic which I cannot seem to find any information on and that is side impacts. While personally I would not run an incomplete safety system on the street, I am curious what your thoughts are on potential implications of a side impact (getting t-boned, sliding into a pole..) would be while wearing harnesses, assuming that they are installed in a safe manner. I would think that the harnesses would prevent you from smashing your head on the window provided it was a passenger side impact, but on the contrary they might destroy your neck in a driver side impact since your body has nowhere to go. Thoughts?

I wouldn't run harnesses on the street. Period.

First of all, it's just not practical. I put Schroth "Quick-fit" 4-point ASM harnesses in my car for autocross use. I drove them precisely once on the street--just around my neighborhood.

I couldn't reach the radio or HVAC controls.

Beyond that, a 4-point harness is not designed with anti-submarining in mind. Yes, those harnesses I have are equipped with an ASM module, but I'm not going to find out how well they work.

And then there's the rollover thing. A 3-point beltis designed so that you'll "flop" towards the center of a car in a rollover, so you're not vertical if the roof collapses. You can't do that in a 4-, 5-, or 6-point harness. That's why you shouldn't use one without a full roll cage.

Just my opinion, but every vehicle I ever own will have standard belts in addition to harnesses.

I've always gone with the notion that stock seat/race safety gear is a bad idea and race seat/stock safety is also bad ju ju. Stock seats/belts have a level of give built in to deal with g-load stuff beyond what the body can cope with. Other than that - cage, race seat(halo), helmet, full harness, hans - you probably won't smash the noggin unless you have major intrusion. Save the hooning for the track. Other than that - watch out for mustang drivers at cars n coffee

In reply to oldtin:

No input on gear, but if I ever drive a mustang to a show, when I leave I want to rev it up for the mother of all burnouts, then take off in a normal calm manner.

Brian wrote: In reply to oldtin: No input on gear, but if I ever drive a mustang to a show, when I leave I want to rev it up for the mother of all burnouts, then take off in a normal calm manner.

This is exactly what I do. Also, it's fun to rev the engine at stop lights next to ricers and then coast away from the line.

Running harnesses in a street car has a number of issues. First being it is very hard to move around so you can see when pulling out of an intersection, changing lanes on a highway or just about anything you might want to look at that isn't directly in front of you or that you can see in a mirror. Unless you have a rollbar or cage the harnesses probably aren't doing you much good, if you have a cage you don't want to be driving around on the street unless you are wearing your helmet as the cage will really do a number on your naked head in an impact. If you just have a rollbar you may be OK depending how close to the seats it is. Mostly harnesses just don't work for daily driving. Plus they aren't DOT legal if you live in a state that has mandatory seat belt laws.

Sky_Render wrote: Just my opinion, but every vehicle I ever own will have standard belts in addition to harnesses.

Smart move. A 3pt+racing harness setup is always better than a racing harness alone for a dual-use car.

My car's apart at the moment but I drove it on the street with 6 point harnesses quite a bit like this. Can't turn around, mess with stereo, etc. as mentioned previously but I'm OK with it. Because I have a full containment seat the head halo (rubber padded) would keep my head from striking a cage tube. I think I'm probably safer this way than when it was stock with just a 40 year old lap belt.

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I run bride seats and sabelt nascar 6pts in one of my daily drivers, it's awesome. I feel like it really adds a sense of occasion and all the data that I've seen on side impact of a full race bucket with harness is vastly superior to a stock seat with 3pt. My head can't get anywhere near the rollbar with or without a helmet. I'd much, much rather get t boned in my white mr2 (aforementioned) than my silver one (stock seats etc.), in fact. back to back the silver one feels downright unsafe to me in comparison.

I reused a 5pt from my old rally MR2 into the latest MR2 that's only for street/very occasional autocross (like once/yr so far at a fun run). I hate it and regret it. Fumbling with all 5 belts for every single time I get into the car... I wish I hadn't. I didn't realize how many times in a local normal trip I get into and out of the car.

Unsure of your state but in ohio its illegal to use a harness on the street unless its D.O.T approved.

Just remember, if you're wearing a 5 (or 6) point harness with no neck support, then the largest unsupported part of your body will be your head. Racing safety systems are meant to be used in total, i.e. race seat, 5 pt harness, neck support and helmet. If you are just using the 5pt harness, or god forbid just the lap belts like I did, you are in for a world of hurt.

Keep the stock belts in the car and use the race belts on the track.

hobiercr wrote: Just remember, if you're wearing a 5 (or 6) point harness with no neck support, then the largest unsupported part of your body will be your head. Racing safety systems are meant to be used in total, i.e. race seat, 5 pt harness, neck support and helmet. If you are just using the 5pt harness, or god forbid just the lap belts like I did, you are in for a world of hurt. Keep the stock belts in the car and use the race belts on the track.

One thing that doesn't get mentioned when the subject of harnesses on the street comes up is that typically speeds are much lower than than on track and the weight of a helmet isn't adding additional stress on the neck if there is an accident.

Additionally those of us who've replaced low back seats in old cars with full height seats reduce the possibility of neck damage when being hit from behind.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/AzOCzESlLlY

Also watch out for https://www.youtube.com/embed/pGkt6ahLgr8

Cant find anything direct, but would say that you are trading head striking something for more stress on the neck with the energy transfer.

I stayed at a holiday inn, but this isnt my area of direct expertise.

would say that a Halo seat would be a good idea.

Since you're talking about wearing a harness on the street, I'm assuming you've got a 4-point rollbar and fixed-back bucket seats to go with them. In that case, I can't see how they'd be worse than stock in a side-impact. If nothing else, the rollbar should help support the B-pillar to prevent intrusion into the passenger compartment.

As for the whole argument against "partial measures" when it comes to safety equipment, it really depends on the specific car. If you've got a 2017 Mercedes S-class and you add a rollbar, Recaro Pole Positon seats, and 5-point harnesses ... sure, you're probably worse off than when the car was stock.

But what about a '68 2002tii or even a "modern" car like an E30, Sentra SE-R, or Fox body? Are the stock seats and lap-belts really safer? I'm not convinced that they are.

I've been looking for a Triumph TR-6 for weekend/fun use. I plan to add a rollbar (+/- front stays), modern seats, and harnesses. Somehow, I don't think the car will end up any more dangerous than stock.

I tend to think there hasn't been enough testing to be certain about the utility of track car safety equipment, on or off track. Even things that have been engineered to the bejesus belt, like the original P/S airbags, can prove to have some not-obvious failings. And nothing helps you in a tail event, like my friend who had an instantaneous interior fire from a medium-speed collision in a current model-year GM vehicle. Seatbelt saved her from a mild concussion/broken nose, but by the time she got it unhooked, her burns were 3rd degree and widespread. The full-on NASCAR set-up seems to protect drivers from crazy-nuts crashes every weekend, but I know very few people who have a truly comparable system in their track cars. Some times you just have to go with the sanctioning body rules and the obvious stuff.

One of the reasons the CSPish Miata is such a misery to DD is the MOMO fixed back seat, 6 point harness, and roll bar. But I'd rather be in it than in a stock NA Miata during any sort of accident.