Street legal four point harnesses, any recommendations?

I've been looking around for four point street legal harnesses for the Meotter. With the Blackbird Fabworx roll bar in it, the stock belts don't work overly well - which is something Moti warned me about, so I knew what I was getting myself into and am not complaining about it - and I'd like to make good use of the sturdy integrated harness bar.

I need harnesses with wraparound installation as that's what the harness bar is designed for, and the two four point harnesses I'm aware of are the Schroth Rally Sport and the Takata Drift in either 2" or 3" width. Any others I should be aware of?

I know I'll have to study the SCCA TT rules (again) to check if these harnesses are even legal in PDX and CT, unless GRM already knows the answer.

And yes, I'm aware of the various discussions that one shouldn't use a harness bar in a street car, but this is at least a part time track car that gets driven to events and occasionally on the street, hence the need for street legal harnesses.

The no harness in street car thing is about running a harness without a roll bar, with just a harness bar, in a rollover, the roof can cave in with you held upright.

Why not go 5 point?

Personally, I trust SFI/FIA a lot more than DOT, irregardless of what the laws might be. I would take my chances running a seatbelt that is literally above the law if one that fits it is going to result in some sort of compromise.

I had the Schroth ones and was very happy with them. Used them for a couple years till I got a full cage and upgraded to 6 point Schroths.

Well, there is no roof to cave in and the roll bar is probably the sturdiest part of the car .

After re-reading the rule book it looks like I need SFI/FIA approved harnesses on the car to legally run them in PDX and CT, but I'm currently awaiting words of wisdom from the local SCCA guys.

Given that it's beginning to look like I'll need a non-DOT harness anyway, it does make sense to go five or six point.

Looks like the Takatas are made by Schroth so I'd just get to pay a little extra to get green harnesses .

Four points suck. When you tighten the shoulder belts they want to climb up from where they should be at your waist to over your gut. I hated every set I ever used. You need the anti-sub belt to keep the lap belts where they belong and to really achieve a useful level of safety.

not sure what CT is ... but for PDX, you can run just about any belt (OEM 3 pt is fine [not smart in my opinion... but ok as far as the SCCA is concerned]), harness .... for TT it would need to be 5 pt or 6 pt (the recommended is 6 pt) plus arm restraints (keep in mind that without a roof, you'll have to pass the broomstick test)

and like ddavidv said ... 4 pt sucks

I really like my 4 point 2" bolt in corbeaus.

with rallycross I don't need FIA cert and SFI and I don't have a cage and the buckle system is good enough for street mixed with race day use. much safer than my 25 year old belts. They are DOT approved I know that. But it sounds like that wont do you good.

I would say that if you are going to have harnesses... put a six point in and be done with it. Connecting the sub straps isn't any more annoying than wearing a four point in the first place and it's a lot safer than having the un-anchored lap belts slide over the top of your pelvis and squash your innards in a collision.

Once you abandon the factory three point, you may as well go all-in and do it right.

G-Force FIA six points are in the $160 range at saferacer.

The only 4-point I would consider is the Schroth Profi II ASM FE.

It's 4-point anti-submarining, it wraps around your roll bar for installation, it accommodates a 5th or 6th anti-sub strap if you upgrade seats, and it has the DOT-required push button (though you can switch to a cam lock too).

Schroth's other ASM harnesses are meant to bolt in the rear and don't allow for roll-bar wrap installation. They also don't allow for future upgrading to a truly track-ready 5- or 6-point (awesome if you intend to switch seats between stock-autocross and track use, since you can leave the sub-belts installed below your stock seat).

Finally, the only thing that makes a harness "street-legal" is the red push-to-unlock button. Cops don't care if it's missing and EMTs can cut the straps if they can't figure it out and you've crashed hard enough to be unconscious and need extracting.

I've used Schroth Rallye 4 anti-sub belts in a few different cars, and they certainly get the nod from me. Great quality, and very easy to live with as far as daily driver duties goes. Rallye-4

I should point out that I'm not running stock seats in the car anyway (I've got a set of "Canadian Mail Order Brides" in it that I'll hopefully, eventually upgrade to the real FIA-approved ones).

The Profi II looks pretty decent so I'll consider that one, too.

wbjones wrote: not sure what CT is

Club trials, one level below TT.

wbjones wrote: ... but for PDX, you can run just about any belt (OEM 3 pt is fine [not smart in my opinion... but ok as far as the SCCA is concerned]), harness .... for TT it would need to be 5 pt or 6 pt (the recommended is 6 pt) plus arm restraints (keep in mind that without a roof, you'll have to pass the broomstick test) and like ddavidv said ... 4 pt sucks

I have a hardtop for the Miata, plus I made sure I'd "more or less" pass the broomstick test anyway as I wouldn't really feel safe knowing that my head would stick up above the rollbar.

Actually leaving aside the 4/5/6 point argument, according to the PDX & TT rules 4 point up FIA belts are ok in TT.

Schroth, GForce, Simpson - they're all 'good'. The locking mechanism is what differs functionally. http://www.saferacer.com/auto-racing-restraints/belts-harnesses

More race sanctioning groups have ruled out 4 points since they would allow submarining.

I had a Schroth Rallye Sport or something. I liked the idea of it, but didn't like the reality of it. It seemed to need another strap to keep the shoulder belts from spreading. Unlike a five or six point harness, the shoulder belts are stitched, rather than clipped, to the lap belt. Because of that, the shoulder belts start further apart from one another and, to me, always felt that they were going to slip off my shoulders.

I will say the there is an excellent video on the Schroth site that explains how their four point belts are designed to behave like three point belts. From memory, I can't explain why the concept made sense to me at the time, but it did.

BoxheadTim wrote:

wbjones wrote: not sure what CT is

Club trials, one level below TT.

thanks ... forgot that club trials exists ... since the SE-Div doesn't support TT level 2 ... (basically the TT level 3 drivers won't reg. for events if TT 2 is being offered ... they don't want to be on course with those of us that haven't "jumped through the hoops that they had to .. and don't have the same level of safety equipment that they have)

and as for TT accepting 4 pt. ... I didn't realize that

I was probably thinking of TT level 4 (hill-climb) ... that level is where the arm restraints are required (or window net, if full cage)

I had the schroth 4point anti-sub in the rabbit and I liked it well enough. It wasn't annoyingly trying to creep up my midsection or off my shoulders. May have a lot to do with your seats also.

As an instructor I can only say that my recommendation is do not waste your time and money on this 4 point stuff. I have come to really hate these belts and since they do not provide a significant safety improvement over the stock 3 point belts I am loathe to get into a car that has the 4 point installed. I have ridden in many cars with this setup on the track and hate them for their ridiculous adjustment time required. I also hate them because they don't appear to provide much or even any additional benefit vs the stock three point belt.

For me, the recommendation is to get a 6 point harness and be done. It is cheaper in the long run.

Disclaimer... I no longer do any autocrossing. Perrhaps these belts work better in that situation..

Well, I use the car mainly for track driving, not autocrossing...

It looks like five or six point is the way to go, so I guess I'll be doing a little shopping later today.

I have a Schroth Profi II ASM with a dual sub strap added in. Nice harness. Since it's the ASM model I can technically wear it without the sub strap on the street with decreased risk of submarining, and I do that sometimes.

In my miata, I went with Schroth clubman 6pt. It can be had as either a pull-up, or pull-down lap belt. The shoulder harness is designed to wrap around a harness bar. It's a mere $220.

I've got sabelt 6 points, and i like them a lot, no complaints but I remember them being pretty expensive. Maury at sabelt is an awesome guy, I needed something in a rush and he didn't have it in stock, he drove to some nascar team shop and got me what i needed on his own time. He wouldn't accept a dime for the part either. He's got my business for life.