I wonder how many people who complain about drive by wire also complain about the fuel economy they are getting now that the manufacturer can make the engine more efficient under cruise by whacking the throttle wide open and controlling power with cam timing and fuel injection, something you can't do with a cable throttle.
Some DBW implementations leave something to be desired drivability-wise but you can't knock the benefits reaped from the paradigm shift.
ProDarwin wrote:turboswede wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: So they can use it for an active safety system and to provide the ability to have memory positions. A bit silly on a bottom rung car, but that's why I think they do that.Learn me about this active safety that involves seat recline. Do they sense position or something? I guess I follow the position memory logic. I'm not all anti-power seats. I can understand why people like them on a luxury vehicle. I know there are some out there that are power adjustments for everything *except* recline. Those make the most sense to me. Power recline just seems like a step backward.
I think I remember that the seat would back would move forward to reduce whiplash (tighten the belts, etc.) and ensure proper positioning for the airbags. I could be wrong though.
With so many cars being fitted with formerly luxury only options, it probably makes sense for the car companies to buy things like that in bulk.
My OnStar Remote failed one time to start my truck after midnight shift on a 28° morning. The fob remote worked w/ in distance but I actually had to scrape the frost off the windows and climbed into cold leather seats, like WTF. What a berkeleying POS feature, technology my ass. Well uh, it has worked fine ever since and this morning it was like 12° and the windows were clear and the seats were warming so mebbe I'll just let that one go, for now. 
Chris_V wrote:bravenrace wrote: Any car that has oversized flat areas around the wheel wells. I blame Nissan for starting this fulgy trend,Nissan?
Good point. Pretty much any full sized car from the '60s looked that way too. My'66 Catalina sure did.
fasted58 wrote: My OnStar Remote failed one time to start my truck after midnight shift on a 28° morning. The fob remote worked w/ in distance but I actually had to scrape the frost off the windows and climbed into cold leather seats, like WTF. What a berkeleying POS feature, technology my ass. Well uh, it has worked fine ever since and this morning it was like 12° and the windows were clear and the seats were warming so mebbe I'll just let that one go, for now.
I feel your pain. I have to hit the unlock button TWICE to unlock the rear doors of my Volvo so that I can get the snowbrush out and clear the driver's door off before opening it. TWICE.
And it was a PITA trying to figure out how to configure the heated seats to come on automatically, and how to configure the DRLs to disable. I had to hold a button down for, like, five seconds.
(Yes, Volvo allows you to disable DRLs. It's like being an IngSoc inner party member)
In reply to Rupert:
Again, I was talking about the current trend, which no car from the 60's started.
G_Body_Man wrote: In reply to Toyman01: What about OBDII? That's a pretty nice post-95 electronic thingy.
Yes if you're a ambulance chasing lawyer, they're real handy. Notrhing like charging the other guy with going 38 is a 35 when your client ran a Stop sign and got T-Boned.
dropstep wrote:Toyman01 wrote: Just about any feature designed after 1995. If it's electronic, automatic, or for the safety of the children and idiots, I'll pass.^^^ my normal cut off is 93 but pretty much this. I also cant stand drive by wire, electronic power steering or the spare location on some vehicles!
Just be thrilled if you have a spare! All those electronic nannys have helped drive the weight up enough, that many models use run-flats to get their weight down!
alfadriver wrote: I bought a car specificaly FOR the auto climate control
Too bad you weren't an instrumentation or process control engineer. You'd realize that "auto climate control" is anything BUT "automatic" or exerts any useful form of "control" on the temperature in your vehicle 
And honestly, all of those features you listed I really don't care for. Most make my life more difficult or are poorly implemented. Bluetooth is nice, but that is simple and inexpensive to add. And I still haven't found one that works well because, well, bluetooth is a pretty E36 M3ty design.
HiTempguy wrote:alfadriver wrote: I bought a car specificaly FOR the auto climate controlToo bad you weren't an instrumentation or process control engineer. You'd realize that "auto climate control" is anything BUT "automatic" or exerts any useful form of "control" on the temperature in your vehicle
Huh, I've had a bluetooth radio in my Saturn for years and its cheap and works great. I just press a button on the radio and say "call wife" and it pauses my audiobook and makes the call. Costs like $130 to add.
ProDarwin wrote:turboswede wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: So they can use it for an active safety system and to provide the ability to have memory positions. A bit silly on a bottom rung car, but that's why I think they do that.Learn me about this active safety that involves seat recline. Do they sense position or something? I guess I follow the position memory logic. I'm not all anti-power seats. I can understand why people like them on a luxury vehicle. I know there are some out there that are power adjustments for everything *except* recline. Those make the most sense to me. Power recline just seems like a step backward.
I'm in the middle of installing a pair of Saab 9-3 seats into the Mini, but the left seat has the fancy memory function and there is no way to make it work without the seat computer (yes, really, its called the Power Seat Module) getting the proper signal via the CANBUS that it is ok to adjust the seat postition (door open (with a set time delay), or ignition on). To make the seat function, I ended up removing the computer and replacing it with 8 relays. I should've just kept looking for seats, but I got a good deal on the Saab ones and they are comfy.
I can't call my Malibu a good car.. it is a mediocre one at best.. but I found a feature I really hate.
it was way cold this morning, so I clicked the already running at full heater over to "recirc" to try to get the cabin warmed up faster.. This turned on the airconditioner. You cannot turn the airconditioner off manually. If you hit the button, the light will blink at you half a dozen times and then go back to steady on.
ProDarwin wrote:HiTempguy wrote:Huh, I've had a bluetooth radio in my Saturn for years and its cheap and works great. I just press a button on the radio and say "call wife" and it pauses my audiobook and makes the call. Costs like $130 to add.alfadriver wrote: I bought a car specificaly FOR the auto climate controlToo bad you weren't an instrumentation or process control engineer. You'd realize that "auto climate control" is anything BUT "automatic" or exerts any useful form of "control" on the temperature in your vehicle
My Bluetooth works great too. Most people have no idea I'm even using it and the audio portion recognizes what I am saying. No complaints.
mad_machine wrote: I can't call my Malibu a good car.. it is a mediocre one at best.. but I found a feature I really hate. it was way cold this morning, so I clicked the already running at full heater over to "recirc" to try to get the cabin warmed up faster.. This turned on the airconditioner. You cannot turn the airconditioner off manually. If you hit the button, the light will blink at you half a dozen times and then go back to steady on.
Air conditioner dries the air when you have it in recirc.
Edit- Any bluetooth I've seen seems to drop contact with the phone constantly, and the worst thing is when it doesn't recognize your phone upon getting into the vehicle.
I like technology that works. So far, I (personally) have not seen it demonstrated. Maybe in 2012 and newer vehicles it is much better!
Touchscreens that control HVAC, seats...anything more than the radio, CVTs, dashboards that light up without having the actual head and tail lights of the car come on, stability/traction control without off button, on demand awd without a diff lock button, automatic climate control, too many buttons on the steering wheel (Im looking at you Ford).....ummm...and no manual transmission option on "sporty" vehicles.
In reply to HiTempguy:
The a/c dries the air in any mode. But it should have done the opposite of what mad experienced. Usually the a/c comes on automatically only in defrost or partial defrost mode. It doesn't change in response to whether the hvac is in fresh or recirc mode. I'm not refuting what mad experienced, but if it did that it's the first GM I've ever seen that did that. None of our or our competitor's systems are designed that way, as it doesn't make sense to do so.
In reply to turboswede: In my planet an E90 is sporty. It's a sports sedan, so it qualifies as a sporty car. 416 lb/ft of torque hustles the car, and they tuned it so the powerband feels peaky. It doesn't drive like grandpa's Cadillac.
Dual mass flywheels. The stock flywheel absolutely ruined the feel of my Legacy GT. I replaced it with a lightweight conventional flywheel, and it transformed the car.
Plastic engine covers. Not the covers themselves- some look okay and compliment the engine. But most just cover up an ugly engine with an ugly expanse of black plastic. Very few cars look good under the hood today.
Boost_Crazy wrote: Plastic engine covers.
This.
In reply to BlueInGreen44:
Of all the things that can ruin an otherwise nice car, you guys pick that? You can take it off!
Rupert wrote:Chris_V wrote:Good point. Pretty much any full sized car from the '60s looked that way too. My'66 Catalina sure did.bravenrace wrote: Any car that has oversized flat areas around the wheel wells. I blame Nissan for starting this fulgy trend,Nissan?
I think you must be confused about what we are talking about, as the '66 Catalina didn't have ANY flat areas around the wheel well lip, let alone a fat one. Neither does any other 60's car I can think of.
I did not read all the comments, but did we cover women drivers yet?
In reply to bravenrace:Going by this picture I see what you mean. I always thought the whole car was pretty much flat sided. But then compared to what most look like now, everything if that era could be considered at least flat rear-ended.
Gorgeous car! Mine was a very dark metallic-like blue.
In reply to bravenrace:
But since there's a plastic cover they don't bother making the engine look nice under it.
I'd like to open my hood and see something like this
Rather than this.
I realize it's a silly thing to get worked up about but I really appreciate when the functional mechanical bits of a car look pretty. That's just one of my "things" I guess.
BlueInGreen44 wrote: In reply to bravenrace: But since there's a plastic cover they don't bother making the engine look nice under it. I'd like to open my hood and see something like this
Dear god i'm so glad I don't see that when I open my hood.
I do know what you mean though. But what I hate more is really messy engine bays that aren't covered and could be clean. The Miata engine bay looks like a rats nest compared to the Saturn. Even with a relatively neat looking engine, the Z32 was really bad - which is why a lot of people go through a lot of trouble to simplify it.
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