I either need to be told I'm being stupid with what I'm attempting to do or given assistance so doing it won't brake the bank and cause me to rip my hair out.

There are a number of problems....

1 Me, I like to be the underdog.

2 Said underdog is tracking a '05 Chevy Malibu.

3 I want to put stickier rubber on the Malibu but it can't properly utilize what it has already.

Here is my build thread but I'll also give a TLDR version. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/2005-chevrolet-malibu-v6/60988/page1/

Running 205/65/15 Potenza RE960AS Pole Position. Not bad for all seasons but not track tires. Have had alignments done and running 2 degrees camber all around but tires wearing all funky. My tires have pretty sturdy sidewalls but with 65 ratio it still flexes. With suspension as soft as it is the alignment is being heavily distorted through the turns compounding the problem.

Left side wears evenly but rolls onto sidewall even at 40+ psi hot. Front rolls more then back and front chunks it's outside badly. Seems to be worst during tighter corners (VIR: Oaktree; NJMP Thunderbolt: turn 9)

Right side tires wear out their inside faster then outside but doesn't roll onto sidewall. Rear wears out a lot faster on inside.

I think these are from the fact that currently in order to get the car to rotate in said corners I need to keep on the brakes to put weight on the nose and get the back to slide a bit.

I just want to know if there is a hardware fix for this problem or it's how I'm having to drive the car to get a decent lap time? Aftermarket support is ziltch, may be able to find some Malibu SS parts but I'm not sure if the spring rates are any different and the anti-sway bars for the SS are 25mm up front compared to 19mm on mine but both models are 20mm in the back. Wouldn't a thicker front anti-sway back make the understeer worse?

Any assistance would be great, I'm just destroying a full set of tires after 16 20 min sessions. I want to switch to 225/50/16 Hankook Ventus R-S3 and I know having a lower sidewall will help roll and more agressive tread would probably reduce chunking but I want to make sure my suspsion is decent enough to handle the tires before I spend the money on them.

Different problem with possible related solution. I wear through my front Carbotech XP10 pads down to the metal in the front after the same 16 20 min sessions that my tires die in but my rear XP8 pads have only gone from 11/32 of an inch down to 8/32 of an inch in the same time. Obviously due to momentum the front is going to do more braking then the rear but I didn't expect it to be so unbalanced.

Also if anyone knows a reputable shop in the Raleigh, NC area it would be helpful. The race shop I have been using just raised their rates by 25%. :\

Thanks in advance,

The other Bryce ;P

Ok, I'll bite.

If you are on stock springs and sway bars, you are almost certainly getting excessive weight transfer due to body roll. That'll cause your tires to roll over and live short lives.

If you can't get aftermarket springs, maybe investigate cutting a stock set- not sure that's a good idea. Also, if no bigger sway bars are available, clamp a second stock bar to the existing or weld a piece of angle iron on - LeMons style. Actually, the Lemons forums might might yield good (and bad) ideas for solving your handling woes.

I'm assuming this car has struts up front with a beam axle out back. Maybe look to copy the setup of a similar car that has had race development (early 80's civic, or those old showroom stock oldsmobiles that did well back in the day).

Oh, and even if you lower the car and increase the roll stiffness, 2 degrees of neg camber up front may not be enough. Measuring tire temps can help figure that out.

Good luck, and keep us posted in your build thread.

You need brake cooling ducts. This will help out way more than you think.

Left side wears evenly but rolls onto sidewall even at 40+ psi hot. Front rolls more then back and front chunks it's outside badly. Seems to be worst during tighter corners (VIR: Oaktree; NJMP Thunderbolt: turn 9) Right side tires wear out their inside faster then outside but doesn't roll onto sidewall. Rear wears out a lot faster on inside.

Sounds like you have more negative camber than you' re actually finding a use for on the right side. Have you thought about taking some negative camber OUT on that side? The downside i see with that is that a lot of alignment people don't actually want to spend the time figuring out how to make a car go straight with goofy settings like uneven camber.

I think the biggest improvements (bang for buck) will be canceling out that body roll/weight transfer at the same time running shorter sidewalls. If this can help you stay off the brakes some it may partially solve your brake pad wear issues as well.

What size are the springs? If they are a standard ID size like 2.5 or 2.25 you should be able to find a stiffer spring from someone like Eibach, Hyperco, Afco or QA1.

Ok, umm....

sevenracer: Not solid rear in the back. I'll check out the Lemons forums as this is a third car and not my DD so I can probably get away with some whackyness. You can double up sway bars?

clownkiller: I have yet to boil my fluid or get any brake fade. Are you saying that keeping brakes cooler will help with longevity of pads as well?

Vigo: Was thinking or going with uneven camber settings but wasn't sure if that would mess up straight line stability or stability under braking. Also if I got more traction on my right rear tire it would probably slow me down even more trying to rotate around the corners.

ebonyandivory: Shorter sidewalls with a stickier compound I feel would be an even swap. I really need to get the lean/weight transfer under control but I'm scared to play guessing games with springs for other cars.

93EXCivic: I'll see if I can dig up some info but my mechanical knowlege is limited to fluid changes and brake jobs so I don't know what I'm looking at 1/2 the time.

Thanks for the replies.

clownkiller: I have yet to boil my fluid or get any brake fade. Are you saying that keeping brakes cooler will help with longevity of pads as well?

The pads will last longer, and won't fade as quickly. How do you know you didn't boil your brake fluid? Did you try to bleed them just after you were off the track?

Looks like the brakes got really hot.

In reply to clownkiller:

Ok, so I'm not 100% sure I havn't boiled by fluid at some point but I have yet to get a squishy pedal or experience brake fading to any noticable level. With the exception of that picture where I ran my pads down to the nubs. I did bleed my fluid after that incident.

I did want to do some homemade coolers but other things kept poping up ahead of that on the list. If it will get a little more track time out of a set of pads I think I'll put it on my winter list.

Thanks.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

Good call on the springs. He could even find springs from Rock, or Votozone from a different model, the wagon (hatch) or a cop car, that could be even more economical.

In reply to Fr3AkAzOiD: Best 20$ spent on our Lemons car ever. I'd bump it to the top of my list. FWIW

wikipedia says saab 9-3's and 9-5's were built on the same platform.

Their stock springs and shocks and sway bars might be a good upgrade, and there are probably aftermarket options for those cars. May take some digging to verify they are truly compatible.

Bit of an update and question on best direction.

Pontiac G6 and Saab 9-3 are both epsilon platforms and have the same front strut and spring setup. Though the 9-3 bolt patern for coilovers is slightly off and I would have to enlarge 2 of the holes on the top of the strut tower to make them work.

Back is a different story, top attachment point for rear shock is different so options would either to measure 9-3 and Malibu rear shocks and if stock lengths are close cut down and weld Malibu attachment point from current shock to new shock. Otherwise I'd be looking at running the stock rear shocks with stiffer springs.

Stock Malibu springs rates are 180 lbs front and 102 lbs rear.

No luck finding stock springs that would work that are significantly stiffer and any of the 1" - 1.5" lowering springs I found were only around 235lbs front and rear. Not even sure if that would compensate for the drop let alone improve handling.

Found coilovers for the 9-3 from Megan 448/336lbs, 2 from Ksport 672/392lbs and 486/336lbs, XYZ 504/336lbs, and KW ($2,200+ forget it). Couple ebay brands were left out after not returning emails.

I could also see if someplace like Eaton spring could make up a set of springs that keep stock height or only drop 1/4 inch and run 250/150lbs (38%F/47%R rate increase) on my stock struts/shocks. That would put me to roughly the stock spring rates for a '97 - '01 Honda Prelude. The Prelude is only about 100 lbs lighter but has same HP and weight distribution as my car.

As a secondary track car I like it being softer suspension and with street tires. Passing 4 cars a lap in the rain is a blast and knowing that my car won't be unsettled by any curbing or gators lets me use more of the track then I'm comfortable with in my Miata.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvCGo9Ip8vY

I know I need to improve the suspension since body roll is eating my tires but I don't want it to be too stiff or have parts failing on me due to over stress. Only other cars I've driven in anger to compare spring rates to are my Miata which weighs over 1,000 lbs less and has 391/256lbs main spring with 112 lbs front and back helper springs. Also I had a '02 S2000 which had 246/309lbs springs (stock) and weighed about 450 lbs less then the Malibu.

I know I want it to ride softer then either of those but not sure what rates I should be looking at.

I also found a company making front strut tower braces for the G6 wich will fit fine on the Malibu as well as poly dogbones for the front sway bar that are stiffer then stock. Also found a few sway bar options for dialing in handling once I get springs done. I have a front of 19mm, and 25mm is available off the Malibu SS. I have 20mm rears and I found their spring rate is 125 lbs, but 22mm at 171 lbs is available off G6 GXP and Adco can make a 7/8" bar at 502lbs.

Sorry for the wall-o-text but I guess what I'm asking is are Megan or Ksport coilovers a bad idea? Be it due to their construction, trying to jurry rig the rear 9-3 shock to work in the Malibu, or running stock rear shocks with with springs 330% stiffer then stock.

Would getting custom springs roughly 38% - 48% stiffer then stock but at stock height (or close to) be a bad idea? Be it from increasing spring rate without changing shocks/struts, not large enough spring rate increase to improve handling, or due to keeping stock height vs lowering with coilovers.

Any feedback will be welcome.