Talk me into DOT-Rs

Okay, I've posed this question before, in slightly different form. But I'm conflicted. I want to spring for some good track tires for the Miata, but I need some external justification. I've done a half dozen trackdays so far; so still learning a lot, but holding my own pretty well.

I have the opportunity to get tires 25% off. I don't like the tires I currently have on the Miata. This is the opportunity. It's the Holiday season though, and money is tight. However, between my Birthday and Christmas, I'll likely have some extra spending cash when I'm done.

Ultimately it's going to cost me $200 more to buy some NT-01s over what I'd spend if I bought Azenis RT-615s. Am I going to notice a $200 difference between these two tires on the track? Should I just bite the bullet and get the good tires that I really want?

Will the Azenis outlast the NT-01 on track? Do the Azenis develop bad habits when they warm up on track?

The azenis will get greasy when they are overheated and wear will be accelerated. I would be willing to bet the Nittos will outlast them.

and you just cant beat the all out grip of an R-comp.

If you drive really hard, you may start wearing the Azenis faster.

You will definitely notice the difference, especially if you drive hard enough to fully heat them up.

I have a set of Toyo Proxes R888 for my behemoth Impala SS.

LOOOOVE them. Holy cripes they are sticky, and I've tried sticky tires in my lifetime.

I just looked up R888s, they seem like a good choice, although the big slick areas and lack of ribs might not be good for wet performance:

http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires/tires.asp?lpid=30029&name=Proxes%20R888&category=sport

The Ecsta SPTs I have now have great rain performance, the only problem is they get a little mushy after a few laps if you drive 10/10ths, but they're great for autocross, they get sticky fast and they don't get a chance to get mushy.

Here's a pic of an SPT tread for comparison: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+SPT

The RA1s and the new NT05s are your best bets for the streets if you'll ever see rain or puddles.

R-comps will immediately drop your lap times. But...

You will learn faster on street tires. R tires don't break away as smoothly or with as much audible warning. Race tires have less feedback. Also, when you hit the wall, you'll hit it faster on race tires. Also, race tires on a Miata only make its' under-powered nature worse.

It's really fun to pass someone who's working really hard when you're driving a little, under-powered Miata on street tires, with lots of tire howl, in a big four-wheel drift!

Save the race tires for when you're actually in competition.

David

carguy123 wrote: The RA1s and the new NT05s are your best bets for the streets if you'll ever see rain or puddles.

Rain on the streets isn't a big concern for me. The Miata is my second car, and does not get driven in the rain... unless it happens to be raining on the way to a track day.

At this point. I'm getting on track about every month or two. So the primary goal of these is as a track day tire.

Will the Toyos outlast the Nittos?

DWNSHFT wrote: It's really fun to pass someone who's working really hard when you're driving a little, under-powered Miata on street tires, with lots of tire howl, in a big four-wheel drift!

That does sound like a lot of fun.

More fun? When you run Hoosiers and see your G meter pass 1.0 and beyond!

Maybe somebody should mention that Toyo = Nitto in all but marketing terms.

Same company ;-)

That said, sure there could be some compuonding differences, but I doubt it. I'd betcha that the performance of those R888 will be matched but the NTs, and on a "for the money" scale will walk all over them

Disclosure: I drive on Nittos @ autocross events, love 'em

Gearhead_42 wrote: Maybe somebody should mention that Toyo = Nitto in all but marketing terms. Same company ;-)

I'd heard that was the case.

But how about NT-01 vs. Azenis RT-615? Am I going to enjoy a DOT-R tire 50% more to make it worth the additional expense?

Salanis wrote: But how about NT-01 vs. Azenis RT-615? Am I going to enjoy a DOT-R tire 50% more to make it worth the additional expense?

You need new tire at this point anyway, yes? Try them out. If you don't enjoy it 50% more you know not to spend the extra on the next set.

Try it, you might like it

/r-drug pusher

Salanis wrote:

Gearhead_42 wrote: Maybe somebody should mention that Toyo = Nitto in all but marketing terms. Same company ;-)

I'd heard that was the case. But how about NT-01 vs. Azenis RT-615? Am I going to enjoy a DOT-R tire 50% more to make it worth the additional expense?

I've had a set of 615's on my car immediately AFTER a set of NT-01's. I was angry. It was like I was driving in the rain all of a sudden. And btw, I do like 615's. I have, even after that experience, put them on a DD for myself. But they are not the same.

In fact, they work in reverse. The falkens start out okay and get slipperier the hotter they get. The Nittos start out slippery, but the harder you drive them the more "OMG grip!" you get.

I tracked the temperatures on my Azenis during a test and tune autocross when I was able to make back-to-back runs as long as I wanted. They definetaly heated up to the point of being slippery. I had to take a break and let them cool occasionally. Unless you buy them shaved, I think they are not well suited to the repeated heat of a track day.

Great. Thanks for convincing me that the tires I want an excuse to buy are the tires I need.

Now I'm back to the question of RA1 vs. NT-01. I gather that the RA-1 has more tread depth and should last longer because of that. And that the tread pattern handles standing water a little better. I'm going to see what the price difference between the two tires is.

check the NT -05 it's the "street' version of the NT 01

carguy123 wrote: check the NT -05 it's the "street' version of the NT 01

Unfortunately, it won't be released until February. The deal I want to take advantage of closes on Dec 12.

When I bought my Miata, it had BFG RE730's on it. Autocrossing sucked. I switched to Azeni 215's, and thought I was in heaven. Then I switched to Kuhmo V710's, and it's effin' great at autocrosses and track days! I won't use anything other than R-compounds at the track.

So, RA1 or NT01? It'll cost me $12/tire more for the Toyos.

I asked my buddy at Toyo. She said there is no direct crossover between any of their tires and Nitto's. There was one passenger tire that used the same exact compound in Toyo and Nitto, but they will be different tires.

Toyo and Nitto are in bed together financially, but separate manufacturing and design.

Having said that, I have driven an F-body with the RA1 and they were incredible. Haven't tried the Nittos.

Well, I just pulled the trigger on a new set of Falken Wheel Hanabis and Nitto NT-01s. I had to swallow when I heard the final price, but it was actually correct and still a good deal. I'm just going to be paying it down for a while.

Congratulations!

belteshazzar wrote: Congratulations!

Thanks!

It had better be worth it. Otherwise I'm blaming you. Personally.

Apparently I got the very last set of Falken Wheel Hanabis in the Southwest. But they're inexpensive and only weigh 11.5lbs.

just remember the hotter they get the faster you can go.

good luck